034 | It All Depends On HOA Leadership

Julie Adamen: 0:00

People know people understand truth. They know truth when they hear it. They may not like it, but they know truth when they hear it. So you also look like you're in touch what's going on with what's going on in the community. You read the room, everybody's upset about this. What are you going to do about it? Well, we're going to bring in as much information as we possibly can. Another great tool of leadership, bringing that all together and giving the people what they need, so you can bring them along with you.

Announcer: HOA Insights: 0:28

Common Sense for Common Areas exists to help all 2 million volunteer board members nationwide have the right information at the right time to make the right decisions for their future. This podcast is sponsored by four companies that care about Board Members Association insights & Marketplace, Association Reserves, Community Financials, and Kevin Davis Insurance Services. You'll find links to their websites and social media in the show notes. Hi, I'm Robert Norlund, of association reserves.

Julie Adamen: 0:59

And I'm Julie Adamen of Adamen Inc. and this is HOA Insights where we promote common sense...

Robert Nordlund: 1:07

...for common areas. Well, welcome to episode number 34, where we'll be talking about the board's job to lead. As a board member, you're not just a placeholder casually volunteering as a nice community service project. You're a leader responsible for caring for the real estate investments other people have made. But before we get there, in case you haven't had a chance to listen, I want to encourage you to everyone to check out our last episode number 33, which was a fascinating conversation with Vishnu Sharma. He's a practicing Florida CPA and also volunteering as the current president of CII, the National Trade Organization for community associations. If you missed any other prior episodes, take a moment after this one to subscribe to this podcast on any of the most popular podcast platforms. You can also listen from our podcast website, www.Hoainsights.org. Or watch on our YouTube channel. If you have a hot topic, a crazy story, or a question you'd like to to address, you can contact us at 805-203-3130 or email us at podcast @reservestudy.com. So Julie, as we often do, let's start our conversation with an audience question. And this time, Cindy from Seattle asks, My hearing impaired mother wants to record board meetings so she can understand and process all that went on. But the board and management say no. Is that fair?

Julie Adamen: 2:43

Is it fair? Well, I don't know what I don't want to comment on that it's fair or not. But it's likely legal. Because the board typically has the ability to say whether or not they want it recorded and or in some states, anyone who is also in the meeting, whether it's a board member or not, as the ability to say yes or no whether they want it recorded, but though I empathize with the situation. I mean, obviously you may be like to hear all of the back and forth conversation that's going on. Now I believe she's talking about as like a Zoom meeting. I'm pretty sure that's what the situation is. And we're not even sure if it's that I'm not sure about that. Yeah, okay. Well, if it was a Zoom meeting, I would say, you know, the best I can suggest for the owner who would like to hear it is to, you know, get one of the translators that the translated the conversation to? Yeah, yeah, into, you know, it's almost, it's not quite voice to text. It's almost real time, not quite. And so that would be her responsibility. But what I would really encourage her to do is, remember, all of the really important stuff is in the minutes. And the minutes. No, you don't get all the conversation and you don't want it you shouldn't have and it's not in the minutes doesn't matter. But it's all the decisions made. It's not You're not listening all the back and forth. And I that's not something you really need to so read the minutes. And I think that will probably give you all the information that you really need to know what's going on in the community. Yeah.

Robert Nordlund: 4:14

Read about the meeting minutes. That's the official record of the association business. And that just thinking about that reminds me of the first football that I used to watch was with my dad. On a Sunday afternoon. He was he would watch the channel of his alma maters football game. And they would go play, to play to play to play to play with the coach kind of talking it through. You can see an entire football game and like, I don't know, 45 minutes, and it was just fun that you got the meat of the you got into the flow of the game. You saw what happened. You saw the end, and it was great. And that's and

Julie Adamen: 4:53

it was only 45 minutes. And it was

Robert Nordlund: 4:56

right right. So the minutes are actually a great thing because they let you know what happened. You missed the trivia you missed the discussion. You missed the delays, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, the I think the minutes is the strong part. And

Julie Adamen: 5:12

the minutes is the key and this association I'm living in now you get the minutes, it's no problem, but they send out a bullet point synopsis of the decisions made. So it's not official minutes, but it's like eight or nine bullet points. So and really, as far as I'm concerned, I don't that's all I need to see. Well, I glad to know that they're going to replace the dining chairs in the lounge. So that's good, because there are the lounge chairs in the dining room. That's why because they were really shabby looking. So I thought they're on it. That's great.

Robert Nordlund: 5:38

Let's move this into our conversation for today. We're talking about leadership. Yeah, I don't think fair is the question. Leadership is the question, what are we trying to do here at the association? And I think if you try to make everything fair, aren't you going just down a rabbit hole of trying to please people? And is that really what the board's trying to do?

Julie Adamen: 6:00

You? Yes, you are? If you look at it that way, actually, if you are a board member, and you're being fair, you have to think about being fair to the entity as a whole, not to this person or that person or the next person? Because that's not really that's not how it works. Because you can't you have a duty of we just talked about this the other day, right? We're a duty of loyalty to the corporation, not to the individuals. So that means the corporation translates to the individuals. But being a board member is a lot different than I think a lot of people think it's going to be actually I'm really sure it's a lot different than they think it's gonna be most of them are like, Oh, my God, what am I doing. But once they get it get in the swing, they see what their responsibilities are and how to execute. But I think that a lot of board members sometimes either fail to see or don't want to see or just don't have the training or background to realize they're in a position they know they're in a position of leadership. Right? Okay. Well, I'm, I'm one of the board members. So of course, I'm in leadership position. But saying you're in leadership and being a leader are kind of two different things. And, and the board being, as a group, being a the leader of the community, as opposed saying it and doing it are two different things. I mean, I think saying it means you are project focused, which there's nothing wrong with being focused on project, but your project focused only one after the other after the other. And I think leadership in associations, and indeed, in any organization, leadership entails having to bring people with you. So what is it John Maxwell says all leadership is influence. So I think boards need to understand how they can influence and how they currently are influencing their homeowners. Now, if they're not doing much in the leadership thing, they're influencing them in a way that may be detrimental. But if they put forth a vision for the community, they bring the community into that vision, point out everything they're going to be doing over the next couple of years to fulfill that vision. That's the kind of leadership that we really like to see in communities, and usually and most very well run communities, you will see that they have that type of situation.

Robert Nordlund: 8:13

Yeah, I'm just thinking here, by tend to lean towards numbers, let's say you're in 100 unit Association. If you're on the board, I'll say the board's five people, you are five people representing 100. And so you are in arguably a position of power. That doesn't necessarily make you a leader that puts you in leadership. And hopefully, in that position of leadership, you can do the right things to draw the edge, you made the important clarification a moment ago, your responsibility is to the association, and secondarily to the people, the people who have become a member of the association. So you're not primarily there to look after Mrs. Johnson and unit number 13. You're there to look after the association. Let's say you're the board member, you're in the subset, you're in that position of power at the association, you're one of the five. What does leadership look like? What it and you like so many board members, you came into that position almost accidentally. Someone asked you if you could do it, and you said, Ah, I suppose I could do that on Tuesday nights once a month. No big deal. And that's the big undersell. Yeah, we know, everyone knows now. Yeah. But what does that look like? What does it look like when you realize, Wow, I love this and I am good at this and I am valuable to the association. What does that look like when you really grasp that leadership?

Julie Adamen: 9:40

I think when it's when you're the person, I think it's highly satisfying when everything comes together for a particular board member. They may have had no idea what they were getting into. But all of a sudden they realize just like you said that they're good at it. They like it. I think the big thing is it's a tremendous sense of satisfaction because you are doing right Really good for a large organization, maybe something larger than you've ever dealt with in your life. So I think for a board member like that it's highly satisfying. You know, and I was thinking about, in fact, I wrote an article about this, the last two articles I published that are available on my website, but is about a board member job descriptions. And I did the job descriptions in two in two different months, because month one was the hard skills, the things they need to be able to do. And the second month, just this one published in October, was the soft skills of leadership. Because if you don't have those soft skills, which are the people skills and social awareness, self awareness, that kind of thing, you will not bring people with you. I mean, if you as a board member can't read the room, and I mean, either it's other board members, you can't read them, or our homeowners or residents, whether it's in the meeting or, you know, the general tenor of the community, if you can't read that, you will not be particularly successful at bringing them along with what you and the Board may want to do someone on the board needs to be aware of it and bring everybody else into that. But I think that the soft skills of leadership are the things that will when you have those soft skills innately that will make you good at it right away, right away, but they can be learned. It's just an awareness issue. I mean, Robert, I would say between you and I, you are you're an engineer. And so you are you a numbers person, right? And I'm not I'm a generalist, so I'm not can I do numbers? Yes, I would, I would kill myself if I had to be in accounting or engineering, something like that. I mean, God love you all for doing it. Because I couldn't. But I was taught to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? So for me, it's much easier, I can read a room just like that and feel it. And though I think I had a lot of that innately. But when I first got into community management low these 36 years ago, I

Announcer: 11:59

think it is Careful, careful.

Julie Adamen: 12:00

I know, I know. It's, I think I, I was good at it, because I was really good at being task oriented. But I spent about five years being a portfolio manager and doing some supervising of portfolio managers. And then I went into onsite management. And boy, that that was a very intense five years, and I was in my 30. So I really didn't have a clue about a lot of the stuff that the people stuff, right. But that shirt taught me a lot about it. And after that was over, I was really able to read people and understand how important that was. And it just makes you so able to, if you can pick up on what people are thinking or pick up on what the route where the room is going. You can if to disk, you can lead that discussion in the direction or if it wants to go that way. And it's and it's not detrimental, and it's going to be a positive, you need to lead them in that direction, that they're going that way. Anyway, let's talk about that issue. That's all a part of it. And, and all of a sudden, they brought it to you, but you're leading them. It's a really interesting process. Yeah, no, I

Robert Nordlund: 13:06

like what you're talking about. No, I'm just writing that down. It's making me think I have learned so much debriefing with my wife after an event after a party, learning what she has, what she noticed what she saw, and I'm getting better and better and better at this. And the last time we came back from a group event, she said, You did a great job of floating through the room, and not getting stuck in a long conversation with someone and just, I think good job. Those are those are learned skills. Because yeah, they are very easily be at a party or a social event and find someone that I enjoy someone that I'm friendly with, and just spend most of the time talking to them. One of the things I've learned is just look around the room, just like you say, what is the tone in the room, and I'm wondering if we have so many listeners here who are concerned about running the agenda, keeping the the time moving forward to getting through all the things they need to do, and not necessarily reading the room and saying, Hey, and what can we do here is the room full of tension. And next time, I'm gonna stand a doorway and welcome people as they come in, or just little things like that. Can could it be as simple as that?

Julie Adamen: 14:23

Little Yes, it can. I mean, you know, you know, the same you could work a room, right? Well, I can work a room. I mean, Robert, we've been at enough events together where you can see I mean, I'll just go out and talk to anybody. You know, you're good. Yes, I am good at that. But not everyone on the board is comfortable with that, especially if there's a lot of tension and there's some some contentious issue going on in the community. I know that never happens, people but issue, but you know, that small act of being at the door kind of being the pastor at the door and shaking hands as people come in, you know, that's very disarming to people and it also makes them feel as if you're in touch. And in fact, that simple act of touching someone by shaking hands is. I read a statistic, no statistic on this, but I read an article about this one time that if you like such as, like, if you're a cashier or something like a cashier, and you're handing somebody money back, if you touch their hand, even just a glancing touch, they will have something like a 40 or 50% more chance of remembering you in 24 hours than they will previously. So that physical bit of touch that handshake, that warmth, is something people I think even the naysayers in your community, I think they would be blown away. If the board president or whoever was the designee to be the handshake or, you know, shook hands with people as they came in or walked around and said, thanks for coming. Thanks for coming to the meeting, maybe even especially at those meetings that you think or you know, are going to be unpleasant, they do happen. So you kind of got to walk into the belly of the beast and do your best with that. Right,

Robert Nordlund: 16:04

and realize that you are leading people and drawing them forward, maybe a little bit like a magnet, you need to be close enough to be able to draw them, and we'll be in touch with them. I'm wondering if there's going to be people at board meetings? Well, let's say in in real life board meetings, where they are reluctant to shake someone's hand who has shook the hand of the 20 people in front of them, maybe they're just not comfortable with that. But that, that smiling face at the door, or refreshments in the back or whatever it is to make people think that the association is in good hands. These are nice people, they are caring people are going to look after the association's needs and my needs. And I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. So is that kind of what we're talking about here? leading people and reading what's the association needs and not just pushing through the agenda for the board meeting? Yes,

Julie Adamen: 17:00

that's exactly what we're talking about. Because if a board has a tendency to do nothing but push through the agenda, I mean, that the meeting agenda is, you know, do you have to go through the agenda? I get that. But I mean, I say if they the board says Oh, no, we need to get we need to whatever redacted pools, I don't know, pick, pick something redacted pools. And then you have a whole bunch of people thinking, well, we don't need to spend that money. Well, you're always going to have that push and pull, right? So instead of being the top down, no, we're going to do this if you know there's going to be a tremendous amount of conflict. redecking the pools probably isn't a good thing to do that with but anyway, but whatever, something, it doesn't matter, if you don't bring the people along, all you're doing is being autocratic, and shoving it down their throat, and that makes them go. Even worse, the next time something has to be done. So that ability to to go in and being able to you don't, you know, people I hate to tell you, but you're really in sales, and you're like, I hate sales, I don't want to be a salesman. But no matter what you do in this, you're always trying to bring people along and bringing people to how you want them to, to react and how to, to your your agenda. The board's agenda is sales. And part of that is that people think so they have a problem with why, you know, whatever, why the pool decks need to be redone? Why this year? Why not? I think you're gonna actually have to answer those questions. And maybe you have to hold a town hall, or I know, I know, a lot of that is very painful for people to think about. But in the long run, you will do a lot, a lot better. I will tell you what, I did a consulting job, a big one. In Oh, let's see, this had to be five years ago, six years ago now probably quite probably longer. I'm gonna say it. But it was a tremendous job. It was actually I look at that as one of the highlights of my career. And I ended up at a large scale Association once a week for once a month for a week for about nine months because of that, how much help they needed. And the board was beating back a recall. And the recall was ugly. It was horrible. You can't do that. And there was so much misinformation and disinformation going on out there. The board and it was just angry, angry, angry about 1000 units and just people really nasty and angry. And the board decided to hold chat. They call them chat board member chats and it was informal. And on a Saturday at the clubhouse. One or two. Sometimes three board members would show up at the clubhouse and they'd sit at a table and the homeowners would come in and they could ask anything they wanted. And they would feel the questions. And in the first month of that was not fun for those board members who did it. I had one who showed up. She showed up every single time. And that was not fun. But after a couple months to month three people just started not showing up anymore because all their questions were being answered. Thus the board was able the long run the Longer short stories, the board was able to go on with their agenda, beat back to recall. But it was because of that soft skill of being able to go in and listen to the homeowners be calm, that's, you know, manage manage the conflict, that's something else you need to do as a board member, that's a that's actually a soft skill of managing conflict. And understanding, there's always going to be it managing your reaction to the conflict coming at you, and turning that on its head to make it a positive, the conflict. So they became masters at this, it was absolutely spectacular to watch. Fantastic.

Robert Nordlund: 20:34

Julie, What I'm hearing you say here is kind of two things. Number one is listening. Just not driving things not being I think you use the word autocratic, but listening at what is the pulse, even looking around the room, what is going on here in this room? So listening, getting information and then gathering information from your experts. So you do know the answer. So when someone says, Why are you doing this? Well, it's because of A and B and C and D. Oh, I didn't know that. And yet, you know, had a good answer is a fantastic thing. And it makes you not the autocratic person. And there's been many times they've hired myself or my staff to come to an annual meeting and talk through the reason for the special assessment. And the board gets to stand there, or sit there and let us deliver the bad news yet answered the questions. And everyone needs. Everyone then finds out that oh, yeah, you're right. The entry gate has broken five times in the last year, and we've been down for a week each time. And that's not good. You know, all these kinds of things, when you have the experts to help lower people's blood pressure, because and I keep coming back to it in my heart, what you're doing here is not just caring for the assets of the corporation, you're building community, and building community is based on people not just, you know, 1314, unit 15 unit 16. Yep.

Julie Adamen: 22:05

And I'll say, you know, utilizing the experts like that, we've talked about this before in other contexts, you know, part of leadership is knowing where you need to go next. And, and having some vision of that. So, okay, we know we're gonna expand that special assessment, we need to have an expert come in and talk about it. And so just like they hired, you know, that hired but they they brought you guys in, or some of your staff members in to talk to everybody. Well, that gives the board tremendous credibility, because they didn't stand there all. Well, I don't know all the ins and outs of this. No, you're like, well, but we need to we want to get we Yes, we need somebody to come in here and tell us exactly what we need to do. This is who told us and they're going to explain and answer your questions. And you know, when the expert is speaking, people know people understand truth. They know truth when they hear it. They may not like it, but they know truth when they hear it. So you know that you again, you also look like you're in touch what's going on with what's going on in the community. You read the room, everybody's upset about this, what are you going to do about it? Well, we're going to bring in as much information as we possibly can. Another great tool of leadership, bringing that all together and giving the people what they need. So you can bring them along with you.

Robert Nordlund: 23:19

Yep. And that can be written that can be spoken that can be, hey, you know, next month, we will get the landscaper in here to explain why or whatever it is. That's that's great stuff. Well, Julia, let's take a quick break here to get a message from our sponsor. And then we'll be right back with talking about the maybe the policies the rules that support all these good things. Back in just a moment.

Paige Daniels: 23:44

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Robert Nordlund: 24:15

And we're back here with Julie Adelman. And we're going to speak just for a few moments about policies, the guiding principles and how those can help the leadership that the board is trying to implement and run with the and guiding the community forward. So, Julie, can you address that for just a moment?

Julie Adamen: 24:34

You know, a lot of associations do have policies and all they're almost forced into it things like a collection policy, right? They have to have that at just the standard things. They know that they have architectural policies that I would rules and regulations they are they all have that type of thing. But you know, you can have other policies. You can have policies on conduct meetings. You can have policies on becoming a board member and Had your conduct at a board meeting, you can have policies for all different kinds of things. And you can have the policy of how the landscape committee operates or committee guidelines, that kind of thing I'll say. And so the reason we do that with a reason we have guidelines and policies and rules and regulations is, so the community operates in a linear manner. So decisions are made decisions are made based upon a foundation. And the foundation is that policy, that rule or that guideline, and a lot of places are like, oh, you know, if we if we do that, that we always have to say the same thing? No, no, you don't. Number one, nothing is written in stone. And you could always change policies if you need to your staff to republish them to the membership, given some time to digest it, and whatever rules or guidelines you were using, but all of these give the Board tremendous credibility, allowing them to lead with confidence, meaning the confidence of the populace. And because the board is treating everything in an equitable fashion, so when Mrs. Smith comes in and says, Well, I want to take my back patio out another 12 feet, and the board gets intimidated says okay, well, let's just go ahead and let her do that. Well, then the next person comes over says, hey, I want mine out 12 feet. See when you start having those kinds of inequities for literally no reason other than someone didn't want to tell her no, that's when you lose your credibility. And that's when you lose your ability to lead over these many different things that create leadership, but that if you but you lose your credibility, and what you're doing to credibility, your leadership just goes straight down. Now, if people don't want to pay attention to you,

Robert Nordlund: 26:42

the error is gone. And you also are shooting from the hip. And when you're shooting from the hip, then you don't have the leadership platform of being on the board of directors, that is a hopefully a multi year guiding power for the association. And so having those policies allows you to say, That's a great idea. Let me take that up with the board. Things like that, we'll review it could because we have a yes and

Julie Adamen: 27:06

how things bubble up through the association. So let's say let's say you have a manager doesn't matter if it's on site or portfolio, let's just say you have a manager, and someone wants something addressed by the board. Well, it first goes to the manager, and then it percolates to the board at a board meeting, then the board meeting gives manager direction to percolate back down to the unit owner, if they're at whatever that communication is. So things don't get lost in the shuffle. I mean, when you shoot from the hip, they get lost in the shuffle. Mistakes, force. Yeah, they get made. And there's no track either you're not keeping track of what's going on. So it's if you have solid policies and guidelines on which to operate as a board, you should have board policies and guidelines people, that's probably a whole nother thing we could talk about Robert or another time. But it's very important to have those type of documents. So new board members are comfortable when they come in, and board members have been on the board a long time can say, well, is this how we're going to handle this situation? Let's go back to the policies and guidelines and see what we do. So all of that gives you a firm foundation for a well, what a solid platform of governance, I guess that's what I want to say.

Robert Nordlund: 28:13

I like consistency firm foundation platform, building the community and not letting it unwind itself by Well, we did this here, we did this there or, Gee, I don't know that sounds great. Let's do that. And all of a sudden, you have a randomness for an association, not a community. And what you

Julie Adamen: 28:31

sure can tell too, I mean, I'll tell you in the consulting that I do with associations, oftentimes I get the ones that have had a randomness, because that's why they're in trouble and the one person who gets it calls, but it's You sure can tell the difference between ones that are managed well by the board. And those that aren't, it's just night and day, usually the populace is a lot happier. So I would go as far to say 99% of the time, the residents and owners are much happier in an association that is well run, just like to speak at. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 29:02

well, I think everyone here agrees that there's a crucial flaw in this whole community association living situation in that it relies on largely untrained board members and untrained managers. And so it, boy, there are the opportunities to get things wrong. And again, that's one of the reasons why we're here. We're trying to give tidbits of information to encourage and equip and put these pieces together these ideas that can help build community at your association, the idea of being a leader, not just a placeholder, and having a vision for what is the what are the policies that draw us forward? What makes our community what it is, by random this can unwind and not with eggs, in all

Julie Adamen: 29:49

kinds of ways and in all kinds of situations.

Robert Nordlund: 29:52

Yes, yes. Well, thank you Julie. As always, it's great spending some time with you and are we ready? If that were your grasp, Robert, was fast. Well, we need to tell it fallacies. We will talk about policies, we'll talk about vision. We'll talk about some of the things that guide associations forward. But any closing thoughts to add at this time for today's,

Julie Adamen: 30:14

you know, something I was sitting here thinking about the randomness of associations. And I would like to ask our audience, I had an occasion to talk to a gal who had just become a board member, and she was completely overwhelmed. And she would she's talking to me, she is almost crying, because she had no one to talk to. I've never talked her before in my life. And she gave me all of this huge things that are going on. And we have to do this, we have to do that. And it was just this huge, overwhelming problem to her. And I really would like to hear other board members tell me I mean, did you feel that way? When you got on the board? And how did you handle it? Because my advice to her was, you know, how do you eat the elephant? It's one bite at a time, and you have to triage at all. So very big problems to you. I would like to know how you've dealt with it, because all of you have had to at some point, but I'd really like to hear from someone who's had to deal with it. And I'd like to pick that apart and talk about it sometime.

Robert Nordlund: 31:12

Yeah, that could be an episode where we deal with that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. audience questions. I heard a playback of someone who called our telephone number. And the person just said, I'm so glad you're here. I've got no one to talk to. And they, they broke into tears. And I'm thinking, Boy, we have a resource here. Let's help. Let's help get board members all across. So

Julie Adamen: 31:36

that was her. That was her because Kathy says to me, Kathy, okay, yeah, great. Yes and no, really, and she was so grateful. It is interesting. We are

Robert Nordlund: 31:44

here to help. Yes, we are here to equip, encourage one step at a time, one week at a time. And

Julie Adamen: 31:52

because you can do hire everybody, you guys can do it, you can do it. Well, we

Robert Nordlund: 31:55

hope that you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. We look forward to having you join us for another great episode. Next week.

Announcer: 32:08

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