011 | Reclaim Your Time: HOA Meeting Minutes Made Easy!

Unknown: 0:00

Let's remember these are volunteers, right? It's this isn't like it's a business or a corporation where you have a corporate secretary, you have someone specifically trained to do this difficult task. These are volunteers, they may or may not have the ability to take proper minutes at all right, let alone training. So it's a lot to expect of someone to be able to even take minutes properly, let alone take minutes while focusing on the meeting. So it's a big ask for people who are volunteers and just trying to help out their career.

Announcer: 0:26

Common Sense for Common Areas exists to help all 2 million HOA board members nationwide, have the right information at the right time to make the right decisions for their future. If you're a board member, that's you. Stay with us weekly for actionable insights that minimize stress, avoid catastrophes and protect your property values. This episode is sponsored by three businesses that care about volunteer board members, association reserves, community financials, and Kevin Davis Insurance Services. You'll find links to their websites and social media in the show notes.

Robert Nordlund: 1:05

Welcome back to common sense for common areas. I'm Robert Nordlund I'm here today with a special guest to discuss the minutes, the document your board meetings, properly prepared minutes, not too vague, yet not too detailed, provide a clean record, so the association can move forward effectively as an organization. This is episode number 11. And before I make that introduction, I want to encourage everyone to check out episode number 10, which was a great discussion with Kevin Davis on the topic of location specific insurance claims. Kevin outlined the specific risks that different types of associations face and just due to their geography, and also due to their type of construction. And that'll help you minimize your risk exposure and your claims history. Today, I'd like to introduce you to Matt McEwan, VP of Sales and Marketing at Minutes Solutions, their firm that provides minute taking solutions for associations throughout Canada and the United States. Matt graduated university in 2008, with a double major in law and political science and a minor in business. So well credentialed. He worked in sales and marketing in the produce industry and in property management and developer before joining the growing minute Solutions team in 2022. And minute solutions was founded in 2014. So it's been around for a number of years. Welcome to the program today, Matt.

Unknown: 2:32

Thanks for having me, Robert. Thrilled to be here. Well, I

Robert Nordlund: 2:34

first learned of minute solutions through Matt's efforts. It was a social media post. And I realized I wanted to get this company on the podcast. So Matt started out by telling me what got you into the business of helping organizations with their minutes?

Unknown: 2:48

Yeah, so awesome. First of all, you do me a huge favor by saying that you found out about us through our social media channels. Because, you know, now I don't have to make the case to our CEO that those are worthwhile efforts. So they got us on the record. Yeah, this is perfect. In all seriousness, the that is a big part of what we're trying to do is in terms of sweat spread awareness. Because, frankly, for the longest time, myself, I was working for a condominium management company, before I started with minute solutions. And I didn't originally know that this was even an option that existed to manage everything. And so, you know, as this became a serious struggle, our property managers were having a very hard time either taking minutes themselves, or finding board members who could do it properly. This solution came about, and it was something that we jumped on it by using a third party minute ticker. And so I was became familiar with the industry became familiar with Munis solutions through those events. And then when I was ready to make a change, and saw the opportunity based solutions, I jumped on it because I knew so much about the company, the reputation and the service that they're providing and how awful it was to condominium metrics like us.

Robert Nordlund: 3:57

Well, it sounds like the words you chose, you were having a hard time getting it done. And when you see a problem, it's asking for a solution. And all of a sudden you find a solution, you realize, Wow, this could be good, not for just my associations, but all associations. So when you say hard time getting it done. What's that? What's that mean?

Unknown: 4:17

Yeah, so as you probably know, you know, we're taking this often on dock on people who don't really want to do it, because frankly, it's a very difficult task. And it's not exactly an enjoyable one for a lot of people. So we see that ended up on the plates of property managers, Community Managers very often. And frankly, they don't have the time to do it. And so very often, you know, a couple of days before a board meeting is about to happen. They're scrambling to put those minutes together. It's been a month since the last meeting that they've had, they can't even recollect really what was happening. And it's always a rush, not to mention the fact that those minutes weren't done in a timely manner for them to get done the action items that need to get done. So it would became a vicious cycle where they're constantly scrambling. He kept them in, it's done. And it was taking time away from their core responsibilities. They're supposed to be doing things to manage these buildings, improve the community, and save money here or invest in capital projects there. And taking the minutes managing revisions is not something that they shouldn't be focusing on. So that was a major struggle with our personal example.

Robert Nordlund: 5:20

Got it. And imagine if it's in the hands of a board member, it would fall into what you were saying. They don't know what they're doing. They don't like what they're doing. They got on the board, perhaps for other reasons. And all the time that they're spending, working with the minutes going through their notes and getting that into the right format as China they're not spinning, making decisions and forwarding the mission of the association. Is that fair?

Unknown: 5:44

That's, that's absolutely fair. And perhaps even more importantly, as you know, the other very common person that it does fall to is the board secretary, and the board secretary. Sure, that can be an important part of their role managing that process, but they're still a board member. And in some cases, they're one of only three or five board members, they need to play a very important part in the meeting. I mean, these meetings are the lifeblood of a condominium or homeowners association. And so if they're busy taking minutes, they're not going to be able to contribute to the meeting and make those decisions in an informed way that they should. So it really, really distracts them from being able to do what their what their real job is, as a director.

Robert Nordlund: 6:22

Yeah, I'm thinking if they're busy taking minutes, they're working their heads down, they're writing notes. That's why I work when I am working on not listening. And they need to be a board member listening. And also, you want the chemistry of the board, you want them functioning as a team, you want them putting on form, be careful how I say this a good show at the board meeting so that the homeowners and attendants see a well oiled team, working together and contributing together, moving the association forward. And when one is hit down, note note, note, note, note note note, you're starting out with one less person on the team.

Unknown: 7:00

Yeah, and not to mention, let's remember, these are volunteers, right? It's like it's a business or a corporation, where you have a corporate secretary, you have someone specifically trained to do this difficult tasks, these are volunteers, they may or may not have the ability to take our minutes at all right level of training. So it's a lot to expect of someone to be able to even take minutes properly, let alone take minutes while focusing on the meeting. So it's a big ask for people who are volunteers and just trying to help out their career.

Robert Nordlund: 7:27

Yeah, that would be like, looking through the association, crossing your fingers hoping you can find a bookkeeper or CPA that you can talk into being the treasurer. And all of a sudden that person has been given a job, then you might want to say instead of being a board member of board members there, again to help the chemistry help the different points of view help the association go forward, you're not looking for a volunteer to do a job. That's that's the wrong thing to try to saddle out board member with.

Unknown: 7:56

Yeah, exactly. There's, there's a lot of things that happen in our community that are done by professionals for a reason, right or done by third party, just because the volunteer board members aren't necessarily equipped to do it. And you know, kudos to all the ones who do though, you know, to that point, it's not an easy job. And a lot of people step up and get it done. And it's a very important aspect of the governance of your community. So sometimes I think people who are just limited in their community and don't necessarily get involved firsthand, don't really realize all these little things that are happening in the background to make that community tick. And it's not easy.

Robert Nordlund: 8:27

Yeah, well, I guess one of the reasons for this podcast is to reach out to all associations. And there are a lot that are getting help here, and they're professionally and I'm thinking about the four unit association that my sister bought into, you know, you're not gonna get a lot of professional help when you're that small. And so we're here to I use the words, equip and encourage and provide some tidbits. So that hardworking BOARD SECRETARY out there who is doing double duty, that person can learn a little bit from this podcast and do a little better job at moving the association successfully into the future. So let's, let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah. What are the top tips you'd like to give?

Unknown: 9:07

In terms of taking minutes, you know, some of the top things to remember is that more is not necessarily better, right. If anything, less is more, it's important to understand what needs to be included in the minutes. But it's equally important to understand what should not be included in the minutes. And so orgs and especially boards who might be in a contentious environment, they often think that they need to capture as much of the discussion as possible. And while it may be counterintuitive, that's actually the opposite of what you want to do, especially if you are in a contentious situation. You want to stick to the facts, you want to stick to what's necessary. So of course, you should be capturing all the names of participants in the call to order you know, some of the real fundamentals and then of course, you capturing decisions, you're capturing votes that have taken place. You are capturing any conflicts of interest that have been declared any amendments to previous minutes soon and of course, updates on ongoing items. But really, you're focusing on the most critical aspects, the decisions, the action items, and less on the opinion, you shouldn't be having quotations, direct quotations of people, you do not want emotional statements. So if you're talking about PT in the lobby, in your building, you know, you don't need to know what everybody's favorite color was, and preferred color. You want to know what was decided and why. Okay, we chose black because it was the most affordable option and keep it keep it clean and simple. So you don't you don't need all that fluff. And if you have too much fluff in there, not only are you going to get into a situation where you might have people pointing to things that were said that could kind of cause issues later, but you're going to have less readable documents, frankly, and a document that isn't as good at communicating what's happening in these meetings as it should.

Robert Nordlund: 10:53

Yeah. Had a couple of thoughts. One is that just I have never seen a lobby painted black. But that just got me going sideways there. I've got a bad example of color, I guess. No, no, that is fine. When you get a board that's frustrated and said, We can't agree on any color. So let's just paint it black. Yeah, exactly. I learned there's many, many, many shades of white. But I'm not sure there's many shades of black anyway. But I can see a well intended person taking minutes trying to show side A versus side b and try to prevent a balanced story of what went on. But exactly what you're saying is you're not trying to tell a story, you're trying just to document the business facts of the association.

Unknown: 11:37

Yeah, that's where I think a good way to look at it. And to kind of put things in perspective is remember that these become legal documents, once they're approved by the Board, right? This becomes a historical record of your association of your community, put yourself in a situation where your 234 down and years down the road. And you're looking back to try to assess the decision that was made or get some information about a previous boards. It's all the board has turned over, you really want to go read all these conversations, all these emotional arguments. No, you don't you want to know the bare bones of what happened in the meeting, what was discussed what was decided? And you know, what were the what were the action items, what was supposed to be done coming out of that decision. So if you kind of think out of it in that context, that this is a historical record that you're going to keep for a very long time that it kind of clarifies Okay, why don't we actually need to include this. Let me

Robert Nordlund: 12:29

go a little bit deeper into that we just, you convinced me that we don't want to be telling a story. But let's say we have three very important proposals. We could say either insurance coverage, high deductible, low deductible, company, a, company B, all these kinds of things or a new roof. And let's call it a couple$100,000. And you got Roofing Company A, B and C. Obviously, you want to record that you chose Company B. That's and their price was this. That's a good legal document. And I would love for them to be able to go back to 2018 and be able to find the notes and say, Yes, we chose Company B. And their price was this. Do you need to say why they were chosen? Do you need to show that they were the high bid the low bid or they offered a 20 year or 30? year guarantee? How much? Why do you put into that to bring a little bit of color into why the board made that decision in case an attorney is looking backwards? Five or six years or 10 years ago? into the future?

Unknown: 13:32

Yeah, so you don't technically need to say why. So part of what taking minutes is that it is both an art and a science. And so part of that will come down to board preferences, you know, you can just have the bare bones of what the decision was, you know, and you know what the action item was, you can have that if you want. And that might be a preference. But it is helpful to include a moderate amount of context, in most cases, something like that, which is a wise decision, it would be helpful, and we would recommend, and what we typically recommend is what we call a moderate level of detail, which doesn't have a context for every single decision, if it's just a very simple decision that was made or a very simple approval, that is kind of, you know, pretty obvious why that approval would be made. You don't have to have that context every time. But if it's something like that you're making a big decision, you know, a capital investment that you might look back on and try to understand what the board's thinking was than just having a couple lines of context to explain briefly, we know why that selection was made. It's helpful. It's helpful in the presence in terms of communicating to your stakeholders, sure, you're going to share those approved minutes with and it can be helpful in the future to understand why did they go with these at all? That's why they add a warranty that was five years longer. Okay. Makes sense. So yes, just it goes that, you know, a little bit deeper that can go a long way.

Robert Nordlund: 14:49

Yeah. Well, that could also help provide clarity in cases a, and you've tipped me off just a moment ago, if there's a legal issue, and they might say, Oh, well That guy, it turns out was the brother in law of the person in unit number 13. I was picked on unit number 13. The minutes could say that it was a fair price. And they had five years longer warranty. And that's an easy answer. And that makes the problem go away. And I can see how that would be very different from saying that we decided to renew our insurance policy out here in 2023. It's more expensive than it was last year, it was a 12% increase, but we went with, we renewed our policy with ABC insurance. And that that would that would be a situation where you could say, a lot less because it's just a renewal, you could say, you know, a little bit of Oh, darn. But you don't need to say much more than that, if it's just a simple order of business as you move forward.

Unknown: 15:50

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And having the skill to be able to summarize a complex decision and put it into having just a little bit of context. You know, that's part of what you're looking for it a minute taker, someone who can take a complex decision, a what could be a 20 minute conversation and distill it down to something that's quite concise, but very informative. Right?

Robert Nordlund: 16:11

Discernment is the word that came to my mind, something like that, to be able to take that 20 minute discussion, and bring it down into what, two or three or four lines in the meeting notes. Ideally yes, yeah. Cool. Well, on that subject, what do you expect? Or what do you in your, your business what you deliver? For a, we're targeting our listeners to a one hour board meeting? For one hour board meeting, they start the end business in between? Is that a one page two page? Give us kind of a rough figure of merit? What are the differences between too little and too much?

Unknown: 16:52

Yeah. So while we do recommend trying to keep your agenda to one page, when it comes to minutes, there's no set kind of strict requirements? Really, what you want to think about is and it will depend on the number of speeches how complex the topics being discussed, are for sure. But a good way to look at it is that most board meetings on average, are looking between two to five pages is what we see, for a one hour board meeting, you're very likely going to be two, maybe three pages. So yes, the idea for sure, is to think less about the actual length. And because if you're discussing a number of topics on agenda, and if you're discussing them quickly, just because of the formatting of the agenda and listing those topics, you know, you might get into three pages. So it's more about just making sure that you are capturing the agenda items you are including any votes and decisions and a little bit of context. So no firm Burbidge generally speaking at one hour board meeting, you're going to be two to three pitches.

Robert Nordlund: 17:48

When you're talking about documenting things. Let's say an association has an open forum. And everyone gets two minutes to say their to say their pitch to speak to the board in this open, open session. Do you need to record owner of unit number 13 took two minutes talking about painting unit number 27 to two minutes talking about barking dogs. It'd be nice. It seems like to be able to say yes, your number 13 had the opportunity to speak and they did speak in public forum, the Board did hear that person yet. You don't need to say that. For the 13th time. This person was complaining about the pool furniture, or something like that. Tell me Tell me through the discernment in something discernment between what's an important legal document versus not battering unit number 13 owner who just you know, has some, obviously a strong opinion about the pool furniture?

Unknown: 18:46

Yeah, exactly. It's a great question. And this is definitely one topic where we get a pretty wide range of preferences from our clients will certainly recommend a way to do things. But individual communities definitely have specific ways they like to capture this. Some ask is even to do a verbatim, you know, transcription of the question and answer in the open forum. Some ask us just to list a question. And some ask us to summarize kind of the question the answer or just the topic, generally speaking, what is done and what we would recommend is to list the unit owner number and, you know, a brief ideally one line above the topic that they spoke about. And if it is a question answer format, and the board is on side with including that question answer, we would certainly do that. And that is fine to do. But generally speaking for board meeting minutes to include a verbatim transcription of that question and answer, I don't think is necessary and not ideal. So what you're describing in terms of your number 13 raise this issue. And if there was a response, you can capture that response. But again, you're trying to keep it brief and really just highlights that the main issue that was raised.

Robert Nordlund: 19:55

You know, I think you've used the word cryptic. I think another word is concise. But direct, right? Just this is what happened. There was discussion, there was no discussion, we've heard that the garbage collection is indeed always going to be Tuesday and it's 99% of time going to be Tuesday am that's just what we heard when we investigate it from the waste collection company. And you can move on.

Unknown: 20:20

Stick to the facts. So you get to the reference stick to the facts.

Robert Nordlund: 20:23

Yeah. And if the waste collection company always collects on Tuesday, you're kind of stuck with that. And you can look back five years into the meeting minutes and find out oh, yeah, that's the waste collection companies schedule. And there is no moving on that. And now we can finally put that to bed. Yeah, exactly. Okay. I like to put things to bed move on. Hey, um, at the very beginning, you spoke about getting the information in a timely basis, we want to encourage the board members to be able to come to a meeting prepared, help their to make decisions to move the association forward or not constantly in a catch up mode. So what we've talked a little bit about the skill, you call it the art and science, I like that, of taking effective minutes and having the discernment to do it. What about the timeliness, what would be a good turnaround to be able to help the board be able to loop review the meeting minutes, a week, after two weeks after, tell me what I need to know about that?

Unknown: 21:20

Yeah, ideally, you are getting those minutes completed within a week. So and that there's a couple of reasons for that. First, you know, as you know, when you're sharing the minutes with the board, they are for the Board to approve, and they may have changes that they want to request, you want to provide that draft set, while the meeting and the information is still fresh in their minds. If you're sending it to three weeks out, it's really difficult for people to remember exactly what was discussed. So really try hard to get it out within that week. So people can get their while still fresh, get their feedback, and you can quickly make those revisions and send it out for final approval. The other reason is, I mean, these meetings, again, are where important decisions are made and where important action items are identified. And so if you're meeting every month, or even if you're meeting every quarter, I mean, the sooner you can get those improvements out with the approved action items, the better because obviously, there's some things that are time sensitive, and you want to be able to make sure that everyone understands not only who's doing what, but when they have to do it. So the longer that those minutes drag on, the longer those action items might take to actually get acted upon.

Robert Nordlund: 22:24

Yeah, and that can help the whole cycle it an association, the lifecycle because if you can get those assignments back to the board and and board member a who was given the assignment of researching the waste collection schedule, can remember Oh, yeah, right. And they have two or three weeks to get that done before the next board meeting. So they can close that issue and move on to something new.

Unknown: 22:46

And then you're not wasting time because there's nothing more frustrating when you're in a meeting. And you keep talking about the same action item over and over. And part of the reason why hasn't been done is because it wasn't communicated in a timely manner. So if you're putting together good minutes, that are giving people a roadmap for what they need to do, you're going to end up having shorter meetings, because you're going to be more effective. And you're also just going to be spending less time discussing old business. So again, everybody wants to get out of that board meeting as quickly as possible. You can help yourself by delivering those minutes in a timely way, and holding people to account for getting their items done and not giving them any excuses. Say, Well, I only got these minutes three days ago,

Robert Nordlund: 23:22

I was I supposed to do this. Exactly that. And that's a how do we say a legitimate excuse, hopefully, the board members are remembering their assignments. But the meeting minutes or the document, I'm thinking there's a couple other good spin off benefits. And that spin or benefit is the old business, like you said, that gets shorter and shorter and or stays short, because you're not continually rolling things forward. And then the appearance of that board meeting, it becomes shorter becomes more pleasant, things are getting done, anyone, the homeowners in the audience are seeing a board that's working effectively. And they realize, Oh, I'm in a reasonably good association. And not just that, but I could also run for the board, it doesn't look that hard. It's a well functioning entity. It's an organization that I can see myself being a part of, it wants to be a part of something that's boring and non functional. I think I think we all have enough frustrations in our life that we don't want to go there.

Unknown: 24:19

100% I'm really glad you raised that. Because you know, it can be really difficult in some communities to get board members to volunteer their time. And so you need to do what you can to make it attractive and make it easier for them. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult to retain them. And with more turnover and that comes other complications. And I'm sure you see this all the time in what you guys are dealing with. If there's a lot of turnover, especially when you're doing multi year projects, it can be difficult, right? So to be able to make them feel like they're making a difference and having an impact unit you're going to help retain and attract your board members, which is really going to benefit the community overall.

Robert Nordlund: 24:54

Yeah, I like that. Okay, so we've learned if we paint with a broad brush, meeting minutes are going to be somewhere between two and five pages. They're going to be turned around in the first week or so. And that sounds a lot like boards who want and need timely financial information. It's just part of running an organization that gives the board time to act on it make change, can they make changes? privately? Can they say to the minute taker, oh, you spell I have a partner, last name and anderson, a n d e r s e n? Can you do that in between the the draft and the next board meeting? Or do you have to wait for that to be done in open forum.

Unknown: 25:40

If you're going to make revisions, the best thing to do is whoever the minute taker is, have a single point of contact to collect all those revisions communicate them to the minute taker, so you don't have all these people communicating revisions, which could conflict with each other, frankly. So the best is to kind of collect those, give them fit him in and take her present them to the board for approval. So even after you approve minutes, even if it's years later, if necessary, you can revise them that you know, that is up to the board, if something was wearing or something needs to be added. You can open them up and and draft or fix the draft of those minutes. But you don't really I wouldn't recommend doing it on the side, I would do it through your official communication channels, keep it streamlined, and then present the changes all at once to the board and have them approved.

Robert Nordlund: 26:23

I like that. And again, that's a good point. And of course, you're the one who knows, just for the aspect of clarity, and showing transparency to everyone at the board meeting saying Oh, yeah, that's right. Anderson is SEN and it's good to know when they walk by and see that person around the pool or whatever. Like, it's showing that the board is handling things openly and honestly. And there's no backdoor stuff, even if it's legitimate. It's there's a sense of fresh air when things are being done well, okay, when do you realize that you need some help with minutes? When does that annoying or burdensome? or delayed project? When does that get to the tipping point that you realize she need a, like a minute solution type of outside company to help?

Unknown: 27:14

Yeah, so for sure, a couple of things we've already talked about in terms of the timeliness. So we've addressed that if you're not getting those minutes out on a timely matter, if it's leading to action not being completed, because people haven't even received that document, then certainly you need to think about another solution where you can get those minutes out in a more timely manner. But other instances, where you would want to think about it for sure is if you simply don't have someone with the experience or confidence. So if you don't have any volunteer at all, who has the confidence to try and do this, then obviously you need to look at another another option. If you have complex or high stakes meetings coming up, you know, perhaps there's a major issue with your building. And you're, you know, you're trying to solve this and you're having very, very important conversations, you know, the structural integrity, or whatever the case may be, you're you're already thinking in your head, okay, these are very important documents, these records are going to be crucial. You know, I think in a situation like that, you want to make sure you have an experience minute taker, who is going to be able to capture the right information in a clear and concise way. And you want to make sure and not just for complex and high stakes meetings, but you really need to think about the impartiality of these minutes, right. So if you're having a volunteer board member, or if you're having a manager do it, they might be able to do a good job, frankly, they might be able to get them out within a week, they maybe they're good at multitasking, they can focus on the meeting, and they can take the minutes. At the end of the day, there's still not an objective voice, right? Whether it's a community manager, whether it's a board member, they still have some skin in the game. And so if you're getting the sense that perhaps the minute it's are appearing to be a little unbiased, and especially if the management company, for example, is under scrutiny or directors under scrutiny, then you really you're gonna want to think about bringing in a third party to come in and, you know, come in with no interest whatsoever, and just write down what occurred.

Robert Nordlund: 29:11

Yeah, I was thinking that the manager or maybe someone at the management company, just like they often have a financial department, sales department, they may have a minute taking department, and that would be good. But then all of a sudden, just as you were saying it, management contracts are not necessarily long term contracts and so may be uncomfortable for the board to say the reason we're considering going out for bid from companies A, B and C is because our company Company D can't get the darn meeting minutes in time. They can't get the financials to us in time the lawn is never mowed successfully. That could be tough, and I can see the person from the manager company taking meeting minutes starting to bristle as I go. No, I'm I don't think I'm going to be back here. Next month,

Unknown: 30:01

I'm gonna give you the boss adds up.

Robert Nordlund: 30:02

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. impartiality is a great thing. Well, Matt, thank you. It's been great to have you on the show. For some insights on meeting minutes, I learned about discernment, I learned about how important they are to document what's going on at the association, not just now from month to month, but for the effectivity Association and then going back years and years. Well, I hope next month meetings across the US and Canada run smoother and more effectively, because of the concepts you talked about documenting and getting that information, the meeting minutes back in a timely manner. So please tell our audience the best way to get in touch with you.

Unknown: 30:43

Yes, the best way to learn more about minute solutions, you can of course, visit our website at minutessolutions.com It's two s's there minutes and solutions.com. Or you can email us at info@minutessolutions.com. And we have a lot of helpful resources. You know, whether you're working with us or not, we want to help your governance we want to help you improve your minute taking so you can sign up to our newsletter, we have a lot of helpful tips. We have a lot of helpful blog articles, which will give you a guide and really helped make sure that you were doing a difficult task as best as you can do it.

Robert Nordlund: 31:17

Fantastic. So glad we had you on the show here. This is valuable stuff. I'm i and we are all about helping associations operate more effectively and getting them the board leading and taking the association into the future. Well, we hope you learned something from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. If you have a topic you'd like to have us address or questions you'd like to have us answer, please call us at 805-203-3130 or email us at podcast@reservestudy.com We look forward to having you join us for another great episode next week.

Announcer: 31:58

You've been listening to common sense for common areas. Thank you to each of you for your engagement and support. To continue the conversation you can follow the social media links for Robert Nordlund, Kevin Davis, and Juliana Minh in the show notes. If you liked the show, and would like to support us, you can do so in a number of ways. You can subscribe to common sense for common areas wherever you find your favorite podcast, and please share it with another board member. You can do us a HUGE favor by going to iTunes and leaving us a five star rating and review. And you can also support us by supporting the brands that sponsor this program. You'll find links to the website and social media for Association Reserves, Community Financials and Kevin Davis insurance services in the show notes. But the most important thing you can do is to engage in the conversation. You can email your questions or voice memos to podcast@reservestudy.com Or call our 24/7 voicemail line at 805-203-3130. This podcast was produced by Stoke Light Video Production & Marketing. With Stoke Light on your team. You'll see sales grow as you reach more customers with videos that inspire action! See the show notes to connect with Stoke Light. Finally, remember that the views and opinions expressed by the podcast including host co hosts and guests do not constitute legal advice. We encourage our audience to consult with their own legal counsel before making important decisions.