Melissa Garcia: 0:00

It's our world here, and we run it. They help the management company. Roles sometimes gets blurred, because, again, like you said, the names on the letterhead, so they just kind of assume that they're making the decisions. But guess what? They're not. It's what you want and what as as the board members, as the homeowners, collectively in the community, we're driving this based on what the community wants, and so, yeah, I think you're right. There's that lack of knowledge of what it is the meaningfulness of serving on the board as well.

Announcer: HOA Insights: 0:32

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Melissa Garcia: 1:27

See you soon.

Robert Nordlund: 1:30

Welcome to Hoa insights, common sense for common areas. I'm Robert Nordlund . I'm here today for episode number 71 with a special guest to talk about how to manage board transitions successfully, a healthy association is led by a board that's constantly changing, bringing in fresh ideas, fresh energy, and reflecting the constantly changing makeup of the community. So as long as board transitions are going to happen, let's spend a few moments to learn how to manage them successfully. Well, I hope you enjoyed last week's episode number 70, with regular co host, Kevin Davis, with more wise counsel and insights about how to manage insurance issues successfully at your association. If you missed that episode or any other prior episode, you can find them on our podcast website, Hoa insights.org, on your favorite podcast platform, or on our YouTube channel, where you can, of course, give the episode a like or make comments, but better yet, subscribe to the podcast in order to get every episode delivered right to your phone or mobile device. We enjoy hearing from you, so if you have a question you'd like us to address, leave us a voicemail at 805-203-3130, the leave a comment on the YouTube video or send us an email at podcast@reservestudy.com now the question that prompted Today's episode was from Katerina in Louisville, Kentucky, who wrote, we've had a pretty stable board for many years, but Now someone new is joining us. How do we manage this change? And that's exactly why we have today's guest with us, Melissa Garcia is an attorney with the altitude community law firm with multiple locations throughout Colorado. I regularly see Melissa's smiling face at industry conferences, and she's a regular speaker on a state or national level. And when I recently saw that she was giving a presentation on the topic of board transitions, I reached out to her to share some of her expertise with you. So Melissa, welcome to the program.

Melissa Garcia: 3:32

Thank you so much. Always good to be here.

Robert Nordlund: 3:34

Yeah, it's great. Well, let's start with a question, what's the benefit of even talking about this, having an effective board transition well,

Melissa Garcia: 3:43

and I'm going to say this, almost every class that I teach, the board is really a successful community association is really run by a successful board and getting the right people on the board and being able to solicit the right people and recruit and training them, well, if you have A good board, you're going to have a great community. And so for smooth board transitions, you really need you get that stability. You continue the foundation that you already have with the current board. You get the efficiency. If you're planning on this and really sticking thinking about this strategically, you are. You're not wasting any more time. You are you no one has enough time. So you are getting the board to know how to read the governing documents, run the community, knowing their role. So if you don't know all of that, because you haven't planned on that and had a smooth transition, then you're going to be wasting a lot of time. And then finally, just effectiveness. I think how effective your new board will be depends on whether your current board is equipped to welcome new board members on the team, and so if you put that into your plan and really treat this as something important, versus just waiting a couple of weeks prior to the annual election and saying, Okay, we need to solicit candidates and not being. Ready to both welcome them or get them on the board, could be a problem. So there's, there's a lot of reasons why

Robert Nordlund: 5:07

Melissa, you just sparked a lot of thoughts on my end. And when I'm thinking about stability, I think of institutional knowledge. This is the way we do things here. And that can go back to having a mission statement for the association, we are happy villas, we are we stand for this, we encourage this, we embrace this, and that can help bridge these board transitions, if you have a document, and then the efficiency knowing how to work with a management company. How do we do we email? Do we call just these knowing the ropes.

Melissa Garcia: 5:43

Yeah, exactly, because I've seen this happen where you have a board that comes on and they're excited and they're no longer excited three months in, because no one has provided them any information. They don't know what they're doing, and they've wasted six months or three months just figuring out what are our governing documents, all of that should be provided in the onboarding process, just a binder with everything, a clarity of you know what, what the roles are for all the players that should that should be just knowledge that's passed on through just the physical binder with all this information and good onboarding training as well as, and I don't know if You're gonna ask this question or not, but having staggered terms, I like that. Can we chat? Can we chat about that really quick?

Robert Nordlund: 6:27

Yeah, let's go with that. Well, actually, let me stop you. You talked about a binder. Yeah, you in your practice? Do you see boards having a binder, or is it an iPad or something on Dropbox? Because I can see the board coming in. They're new, and they're saying, what about this rumored amendment on the governing documents from 2016 does that exist? Where is it? Who has it?

Melissa Garcia: 6:51

So, yeah, yeah, I see both, and usually the physical binder for and this really has to do with different people learn different ways. So the physical binder is always just kind of a nice hard copy version of what's current. Now, absolutely everything should be there, yeah, average, absolutely everything should be available in some kind of online format or on the iPad, because you could easily search for the minutes that happened, you know, three years ago. But, but it's important because it contains everything, and I always say, give it to them weeks before the first board meeting, so they're already looking at it, and they're already trying to figure they have their questions before they get on the board or the first board meeting, and they already know, well, I get it now, this is what we have to govern under, or they have specific questions that can be handled right away in the first meeting really ought to be the board onboarding training session to answer those questions and to go over just governance and what do you do, and what does the management company do? What are the committee members do? What do the Hallows do and all of that? Yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 7:58

what? What do I do if I see a sprinkler that is leaking, and I got a fountain outside unit number 13, and I have the authority to call the landscaper and ask them to fix it, or do we have to convene a board meeting? I would imagine a new board member doesn't know the answers of the questions, and they need to know

Melissa Garcia: 8:19

absolutely. I mean, I think also just if you are a not just the rules of what they do, but if you are really, if you were starting the new year, what's your strategic plan for the year? What are the priority goals, so they know what to focus on ahead of time. And there's so much that can be put into the training process. And I think it's a shame than not. More associations do this, but it is, in my opinion, critical for the successful board transition, as well as just just being a board member. Yeah.

Robert Nordlund: 8:52

Well, one consistent theme I've heard in our first few minutes is it's going to take some time and using your time effectively preparing for the transition before that first board meeting. So when the board is in front of the Open Meeting, you aren't saying, What do I do now to the other person, and you've had a session with the remainder of the board, and we will talk about staggered terms, where they say, welcome to the board. I do this. This person does that as chair, I will start the meeting. Someone over here watches the clock and takes care that the agenda moves forward on time. Everyone's got to have a role, and they can say you, what would you like to do? Would you like to take over this? Because Fred's done this or Susie has done this for the last two years? Is that what we're talking about here?

Melissa Garcia: 9:49

Yeah, absolutely. It's not just the general overview of what board members do, but you're trying to play to people's skills as well and to their interest, and they can be more they. They could have more passion for the role if you're giving them something that really speaks to them or resonates with them. So at the beginning of these board meetings, at least in Colorado, what the board members do is then they appoint officers, and they also discuss committees, which we'll talk about, I'm sure. And so if you know that ahead of time and you ask each of the new board members, then you can plan well moving forward, and that person will be more committed and involved and engaged in the process, if you know that at a time, right? And many people don't even know they, they just say, I want to be, I just want to, I want to be by the Board, which is great. They want to, they want to assist. And maybe they'll know moving forward as they do the role, yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 10:41

after they spend a year as the timekeeper, maybe they realize I hate that I like enjoying the conversation, not always looking down at my watch or whatever it is. We should talk about transitions, not transitions, but staggered terms. So if you're at an association where, let's say, Can we say five member board? So five member board, and everyone serves. And I guess there's two ways this can play out. One is three ways. One is everyone gets reelected because you have no candidates, maybe two people get reelected because they're done and we have two candidates, or all five quit, and we got five absolute rookies that sit in so how do we prevent that?

Melissa Garcia: 11:30

So I think, I mean, this is really important as well in your pro and if you don't have this already built into your governing documents, here would be the bylaws for Colorado. You want to have what's called staggered terms. And staggered terms is essentially it's a best practice, but oftentimes it's not required per state statute or renew the bylaws. We usually write it in. But for staggered terms, it means that the terms you built the structure so that the terms don't expire all at once. So if you have five board members, you don't want them to all serve three year terms or two year terms, and then done now we have to elect five more. What you want is stagger it so that at the first election after you do the bylaws amendment, for example, two board members are going to be elected for two years, three board members are going to be elected for three years, and then thereaf, the expiration of those terms. Everybody serves serves a three year term. So that builds in. That's staggering, and it's important, because you don't want all the rookies. You want to have the continuity, the knowledge, just best practices, so that as the new board members, come on, they have experts already there, or at least somewhat you know experts. You

Robert Nordlund: 12:45

know, help Well, an expert in the association. They don't have to be an expert in accounting or law, right, or landscaping or anything like that. But you want someone who is, we'll call it happy villas, someone who's an expert in happy villas. Our management company is this our landscaper is this person. Our plumber is this person. Here's the notebook, the binder with the frequently used phone numbers. And remember, you have$1,000 discretionary allowance to get something done, and we'll approve it in the next board meeting or in an emergency, you can do what you need to do. If there is a big plumbing leak outside the building number three, by all means, call the plumber and get that plumber there. We need that kind of stuff, and that's continuity.

Melissa Garcia: 13:34

Because again, when we go back to the reason why board member transition is so important is it's that efficiency aspect, and if you don't have the continuity Now, granted, the management company will have a lot of this information as well, but that's that's not their role as such. I mean, it's a role to provide the the administration of the board decisions and to provide their day to day expertise, but you really want those people that are serving that role as a board member to to pass that on, and for the new ones to even, this is my mentor. This is my buddy. I can reach out to them, you know, and that's, that's what you really want. So staggered terms is in is a very important thing. Yeah, if

Robert Nordlund: 14:14

you don't have staggered terms, how big of a deal is that to make that happen? Can you just say that in the next board meeting will elect some people for one year, some people for two years, some people for three years, and kind of start it or is this something they should contact their attorney about and spend a few bucks and get

Melissa Garcia: 14:36

it right? Yeah, it depends on the state statute for state of whether or not you need to, whether the board, for example, can just amend the bylaws to allow stagger terms. So it's really governing document specific, and that really goes to the attorney. So spend a few bucks to ask the attorney, how do we do this? Because it's so it's so important, and it's a really good thing.

Robert Nordlund: 14:59

And. Would be a well spent small chunk of money that would serve the association well for decades, I would expect. Lisa, yes, exactly. So if you don't have staggered terms, where are we at 10 or so minutes into the program, that's that's your money's worth.

Unknown: 15:19

There you go.

Robert Nordlund: 15:21

Melissa, let's take a quick break to hear from one of our sponsors, and I've got a follow up question on working the pipeline, making sure that you do have candidates. So let's take a quick break to hear from one of our sponsors. Are

Paige Daniels: 15:33

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Robert Nordlund: 16:04

we're back, Melissa, before we break, when on a quick break, we tempted people with idea of filling the pipeline, and in my words, that's making sure that we have candidates properly motivated and enough people to fill board member roles. So let's talk about pipeline for a little bit. Absolutely.

Melissa Garcia: 16:26

I mean, I think that's one of the hardest things for associations to get going. And one of the problems and questions that comes to us all the time is, well, that's all well and good, but how do I get people to serve? And I think there's a there's a several different things that I want to talk about. The first thing is what I like to call debunking the bits and just educating, educating from the get go, whether it's at the annual meeting or sending out newsletters or whatever, about what exactly does the board do? Because I think there's a myth. There's several myths, that the board is always going to be in front of the firing squad so they're scared. And when I taught this class before, I asked everybody in the room, is that the reality is it on the regular, ongoing basis that you're already always in front of the fire and spot? No, that's the exception, but, but, of course, the idea of, Oh, I'm scared to be on the board, because people are always going to be angry at me, that's what's going to rise to the level of any kind of media I could get sued. I could get sued. I mean, there's a lot of things just being on the on the hot seat and being in front of the firing squad, I think also just really important is clarifying what exactly does the board do? And so some board members thinks, Well, this is going to be a second or third full time job, but in reality, first of all, if you're professionally managed, you need to understand what the management company's role is, versus the Board. And then you realize, wait a minute, or just has to make the the, you know, 50, 50,000 level decisions where the management company is administering that. So knowing that it's not all that time that's going to be spent committed to being a board member, and also, you know, just recruiting. Here's, here's why this whole pipeline idea. So first, get rid of the fears, debug the myths, clarify the rules. Second, can we Melissa?

Robert Nordlund: 18:15

Can we add one on top of that? Yeah, I think there's some people out there that remember when they were in college, or earlier in their life, when they lived in an apartment, and I think there's probably a chunk of people out there who aren't really clear what a condominium is, and, yeah, how it's different, because they, they pay the money every month to the management company, and they, they probably don't have a real, Effective grasp that, you know, we are happy villas. We are 67 units. We operate on a monthly basis, and that's run by a volunteer board of directors. And so I and the the problem, if there is a problem, is that the management company is the one who sends the bills, the management company is the one who sends the newsletter. And they associate running the association with the management company, and they think it's done professionally, and they don't see it as different from an apartment. So there's this other layer in there that is, we are a community, we are happy villas, and we are run by a volunteer board of directors. And so it's all of a sudden that opens up a whole new idea of, Wow, this is our community. It's

Melissa Garcia: 19:24

our world here, and we run it. They help the management company. Rule sometimes gets blurred, because, again, like you said, the names on the letterhead, so they just kind of assume that they're making the decisions. But guess what? They're not. It's what you want and what as as the board members, as the homeowners, collectively in the community, we're driving this based on what the community wants. And so, yeah, I think you're right. There's that lack of knowledge of what it is, the meaningfulness of serving on the board. Well, yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 19:55

if there was something, there's a legacy from covid, where there's the i. The chairs in the pool here, and need to be six feet apart. And if you still have that rule, it's our community. Let's change that rule, and let's make happy valleys a happy place to live, where we can why we can scoot the chairs together. Yeah,

Melissa Garcia: 20:18

yeah. Let's push those chairs together. Exactly. Okay, okay, so recruiting. I mean, I think that as a pipeline, it's really important to, not just as a general practice, wait until two or three weeks before the annual election and be ready to nominate or solicit nominations for candidates. It's important, in my opinion, to treat this as an ongoing process. You're, you're developing relations, relationships throughout serving on the board. You are. You know, I think that I that, that I often hear people sometimes say, Well, we were so lucky to get this board member. But I think you can create your own luck by having a heightened awareness of wow, that person that attended the board meeting. They really have some interesting things to say. They have some skills. They have some communication skill. Let's see if we can tempt them to get on the board. It's ongoing, based on the relationships that you develop while you were on the board, and what you see in the committees and the meetings committees is another saying, if somebody's not ready to serve on the board, you know, the associations really ought to, and boards ought to form committees for various projects and various things. The committees are, I think, the perfect area to to train future board members or to see that these particular people will be great on the board. So I think it's just really just treating the recruitment process as an ongoing process, so the whole pipeline can be served that way. And then finally, I wanted to talk well two more things, planning. So planning is more of the effectively publicizing the opportunities to be on the board and making sure that everybody knows again, the rules of the board, and proactively approaching potential volunteers and doing that throughout the year. A big thing is, if you have a candidate or a lot of people coming to board meetings, just have good board meetings because you don't want to. I mean, especially if you invite some of you 10 you don't want to attend, to attend the board meeting, where everybody is dysfunctional,

Robert Nordlund: 22:26

yeah, it's ugly. Who wants to be a part of something as ugly, where it's

Melissa Garcia: 22:29

four hours when it can be done in in an hour. So, um, and then again, the Plan B is just making sure that they, if they don't want to be part of the board, then see if we can tempt them to fulfill some other role as a baby step and see you know what they want, yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 22:46

to be a volunteer. Yes. Could you help us with how many signs do we have? Are the fire curbs painted red? You're a dog walker. Why don't you talk to the other dog walkers and see if we could use a pet waste disposal station to get them thinking, it's again, it's our community. Would you like to help in this little, teeny, tiny bit and get success with that? And they think,

Melissa Garcia: 23:15

Oh, that felt good. Maybe baby steps. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 23:19

Yeah, I think Melissa, going back to the very exactly be part of this. Another thing I wanted to also mention is I don't think that a lot of associations place a lot of importance on celebrating and appreciating board members in general. I think that all too this is what you hear all the time, but maybe this is the reality all too, too often, is that board members, it's a thankless job. Can you just do it? And yeah, we could talk about all the benefits that could occur with you if you're on the board. But just in general, no one is appreciating and celebrating outwardly. You know, celebrating at the annual meeting, there really ought to be a spotlight on what the board member achievements have been and how so and so has helped get the new dog waste program in place, or whatever it is, just appreciating them through newsletters, even like hey spot or just celebrating. We got new board members, Hey, meet so and so, and just make it be a positive you have and within your control to make this a positive thing, and so spotlight those things that are positive. Yeah, there could be some negative aspects of being on a board member, but those don't have to be outwardly spotlighted. It's more of a here's all the great things that'll happen if you were on the board and we all appreciate start, you talked about, what am I doing as a board member, and there's administrative roles, yes, giving the management company guidance as to you talked about the 30 or 50,000 foot level. What are our policies? There's a lot of it is just plain communication. Being an ambassador. When you walk to the mailbox area and. Just a smile, and maybe you stick the news of the last board meeting there, and you're a positive ambassador for the association. And I think one thing that I live in California, one thing that I think the highway department has done well, is typically when I see road construction initially, I think, Oh, darn. But I often go by a nice orange sign that says your tax dollars at work, this will be widened by, you know, October 15, or something like that. And I think, oh, okay, it's going to get better. And this is why I pay taxes. And I feel like they they did the right thing of communicating, and they could have just said, you know, too bad. So sad road construction. But I think that communication element is underappreciated. How you can help make it a community. If you say, we here at Happy villas, and we are doing this, and you know, let's celebrate Marjorie, who spent five years as a board member, and she's the one that got us through the covid 19 um mess. And Marjorie, we just love you so much. Take your

Melissa Garcia: 26:12

Take your lead on this particular project. And you know, whatever it is, just make that part of your plan. Again, you're trying to raise awareness of the great things about being on a board and also in tune, remembering that the board member is they're they're homeowners too, and they're part of your community. Why don't you help steer the ship sometime? And so it's just, it's a great over communicating is really

Robert Nordlund: 26:35

good. Yeah, many, many hands makes light work, right? Yes,

Melissa Garcia: 26:40

absolutely, I did want to throw in there that we talk a lot about onboarding and making sure that we can get people on the board and making sure they understand their roles and all of this and spotlighting celebrating. But what i Another thing that I think that should be done is making sure that part of your plan is that board members are leaving well as as well. So it's sort of so off boarding. So off boarding, I don't really hear that term much, but I think that, well, first of all, you possibly want them to serve another term, because it's really hard to get people on the board. So you don't want them leaving unless, unless you've got a good pipeline, yes, unless you have good pipeline, but competitive

Robert Nordlund: 27:22

elections, Boy, I wish they were more competitive elections.

Melissa Garcia: 27:26

That's true, yeah. But I mean, um, just you don't want that. The other reason why you don't want them leaving with a bad taste in their mouths is because they're going to then bad mouth potentially the next board, and they're going to potentially sabotage future board decisions. You don't want to burn bridges. You want everybody to leave well. And I think, you know, keeping them close to the association, in my opinion, is also critical to sustaining that ongoing relationship. They're primed to help the new board members moving forward, and they're in a prime position to have that information knowledge and play through. And even though they're no longer on the board, they can still be somebody that you can contact and you can and going back to your other your other comment about asking board members what they want to do, well, you should ask board members who leave, do they want to stay involved, and in what way? And I think they would appreciate that, that they are wanted. And, you know, and they can continue. Should they stay in a committee or other kind of position? I just think they're a great resource and can offer insight, particularly if they served a number of terms. They have, you know, a real history.

Robert Nordlund: 28:38

Yeah, I think of that as the institutional knowledge. They were there when the pool got resurfaced. They were there when the roof got replaced. So if you have, and I'm thinking, you're in Colorado, so I'm stereotyping, if you have a hailstorm, what do you remember about the roof specs? Do you remember who put the new roof on? That kind of thing from five years ago?

Melissa Garcia: 28:57

That's exactly right. And you're, you're totally correct in your stereotypes. But also just, what did we do? Maybe that we could have been done better. So if you're you're exposed to this problem again. Here's what you really need to do, right away. Now, yeah, proactive and strategic. And, you know,

Robert Nordlund: 29:14

yeah, and I, I bet half the answers to those questions are, we should have started earlier, and we should have communicated more. And I bet that's what prior board members would say on a regular basis. Should have started earlier, should have communicated more, and boy, if they're still there in the community, they are that legacy effect, and not to burden them because they're off the board now, but to have them understand and appreciate that they are, they're valued. They have. They really helped happy villas, and that could be part of celebrating them, celebrating

Melissa Garcia: 29:54

them, and potentially they can continue to help or come back later. You know. Just one of those, those things that you never want to burn bridges. You don't know if you're always going to have a great pipeline. So even though you want to take steps to plan for that and to proactively address that by ongoing recruiting throughout the year, you don't know what you're going to be left with. So you really do want to to keep those relationships going.

Robert Nordlund: 30:19

Yeah, but I think prior board members should be part of your pipeline. Is that fair to say? Absolutely, yeah. Let's not overwork them. Let's not abuse them. But boy, that can be a legacy. And they can come back on the board and say, oh, cool iPads, rather than the the binder. And they can say, Oh, I'm so glad that we now have XYZ management, because with ABC management, we were always getting the financials a little bit late, and with XYZ, we get them on time. Boy, who made that decision? That was a good one. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about how much better the association is because of the things that the boards do over time, and it comes back to making, well, you started out at the very beginning, attractive board members make for an attractive community. And I think the more you can do to have that healthy pipeline has so many secondary effects. And

Melissa Garcia: 31:19

just even if you have that healthy pipeline, if you bring back other board members who are in the pipeline, just seeing happy board members who are celebrated, it changes that, that whole trajectory, trajectory of the the association, because we have happy board members who are productive, engaged, involved and willing to then transition it to the next board Members and tell them how great it was. Of course, always there's downsides and but that, again, is just a such a minimal part of that let's sort of have that overshadow the entire, you know, experience and being on the board.

Robert Nordlund: 31:53

Yep, yeah. Well, absolutely. Well, thank you, Melissa, for taking the time to join us on today's program. Do you have any closing thoughts that you'd like to add at this time?

Melissa Garcia: 32:03

No, I mean, I think we covered it all, just again elevating the importance of why a board transition is is important, or a smooth one is important, is, is key, and it should come out of everybody's mouths. The management company, the board members talk about the stability, efficiency and the effectiveness and a plan, a plan in place to recruit, to fill the pipeline, to stagger the terms. All of that should be in your strategic plan, if you haven't before for incorporating a board, a smooth board transition procedure and policy,

Robert Nordlund: 32:38

fantastic. Well, for more information, or if you have follow up questions, you can reach Melissa at m, Garcia, M, G, A, R, C, I, a at altitude, dot law, well, we hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. We look forward to having you join us for another great episode next week.

Announcer: 33:02

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