Robert Nordlund: 0:00

What about board members or staff or manager being available in a non business meeting, like coffee with the board or something like that?

Julie Adamen: 0:08

Yeah, I think that is a really good idea. The association I live in, they do that here. Obviously it's very big. They'll have a department head come in and talk, or they'll have someone from the County Sheriff's Office to come in and talk about something, but everybody they give you free coffee and donuts, and people come in, and it's just a really nice way to give people information and allow them to not only feel a part of the process, but they are a part of the process. So they are coming in, they are participating.

Announcer: 0:39

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Robert Nordlund: 1:37

Hi. I'm Robert Nordlund of association

Julie Adamen: 1:39

and I'm Julie Adamen with Adamen and Inc, and reserves, this is HOA Insights, where we promote common sense for common areas.

Robert Nordlund: 1:46

Well, welcome to episode number 72 where we're again speaking with management consultant and regular co host Julie Adelman. Today we're going to be talking about fighting against the dysfunctional stereotype where members of your community may be thinking that the board is secretive, power hungry or taking money from the homeowners. We want your association to thrive, and today we'll be giving you the tools to move in that direction. Well, this is a follow up to episode number 71 with special guest Melissa Garcia, a noted attorney from Colorado, with advice about how to have successful board member transitions at your association. So one by one, episode by episode, we're trying to give you the tools for success if you missed that episode or any other prior episode, take a moment after today's program to listen from our podcast website, Hoa insights.org, or watch on our YouTube channel, where you can give it a like but better yet, subscribe from any of the major podcast platforms so you don't miss any future episodes. Those of you watching on YouTube can see the HOA insights mug that I have here, that I got from our merchandise store, and you can browse through that on our HOA insights.org website, or the link in our show notes, you'll find we have especially items for sale, like this and some free board member zoom backgrounds and so as a treat, I'll give this mug away to the 10th person who emails podcast@reservestudy.com mentioning episode 72 mug giveaway. Go to the merchandise store, pick which mug you would like and give us your address and 10th person to email. We'll send you that mug. Well, we enjoy hearing from you responding to the issues you're facing at your association. So if you have a hot topic, a crazy story, not that that ever happens, or a question you'd like us to address, you can contact us at 805-203-3130, or email us at the same podcast@reservestudy.com one of those listener questions prompted today's episode, Nick from Boston asked, I ran For the board in order to stage a coup, but I found out they were nice people working hard at making our association better. How can we do a better job of changing board perception? Julie,

Julie Adamen: 4:13

that is an excellent question. And boy. Robert, how many times have you seen that scenario? I mean, I've seen it for years. Yeah.

Robert Nordlund: 4:21

I hear a lot of people talking about wanting to make a coup, but here's a guy who got elected to the board and realized, Oh,

Julie Adamen: 4:30

they're okay, yeah, yeah. And that's super common, unfortunately, when someone runs for the board to stage a coup. I mean, I don't know how vociferous he wasn't staging that coup, because sometimes it can get very ugly, but still, typically, they will get on the board and realize that, oh, wait a minute, that was wrong. I mean, particularly, people will go run for the board on a specific agenda item like, oh, you know, lower dues or lower assessments. That's always one of the big ones. Or. Fire the landscape company, get rid of the manager, something like that. And then they get on the board and they find out, Oh, I didn't know all of this other stuff going on much as we talked about the last time we recorded. And along with Kevin, when you were doing the previous podcast, you know, communication again. I know I'm beating that dead horse, but I am telling you, it is the number one thing, and I think most boards don't communicate enough. It's time consuming, folks. I mean, I don't blame you. I understand why, and I understand why boards don't do it because, you know, they may not be good writers, or they may think, you know, I don't write that well, or, you know, I just don't want to have to do all this hassle. And typically, I'll tell you, typically, you do have to write the stuff. It doesn't have to be long, just bullet points, but good, regular communication. And let me talk to you all about a really nice little tool now, it's called Chat GPT, and if you have a few bullet points of things you want to get get to the membership, you can put that. I'm not trying to plug chat GPT as there's others as well. It's just what I have found, and it's really user friendly. Just put those bullet points in and tell chat GPT to make two or three paragraphs out of that. Boom, you have it in a second. Make sure and proofread it. Make sure that it that it pertains Exactly. But it can take the job of having to write a four or five paragraphs right out of your hands, and it makes it a lot easier. So honestly, there's not that big of an excuse so much anymore not to communicate. Also, I wouldn't bring this up too. Is that a lot of if you have a management company, a lot of management companies will produce or write your newsletter, but they do charge extra, which you guys all know how long it takes to produce your own newsletter, so obviously they have to charge. But communication is everything, everything you

Robert Nordlund: 6:48

started out with talking about communication, and I wrote from the heart, because I think if it was Nick from Boston, if he would have known more, then he would have been okay. He could have been likely turned into a helpful volunteer, a helpful committee member, rather than someone who wanted to just attack, cut the head off a dragon. Okay, so, from the heart, so you're saying we as a board are doing this happy villas, or whatever the name of the association is communicating with the homeowners, and in my heart, I'm thinking more do it more and in more ways? Are you good with that?

Julie Adamen: 7:28

Absolutely, more and in more ways. I mean, if you are, honestly, you can't have too much communication. Again, we've talked about this previously, but I think obviously e blasts, so even if it's not a full newsletter, if you have an email that comes out from the board regularly, even if it has to be twice a month, it doesn't have to have all the earth shaking things, it can also, you know, celebrate some of the good things that may seem small to you, but as board members, because you're always dealing with all of this stuff. But if something really good has happened, or you have some good news, share it. I used to have a board member lo these many years ago. He used to call it spin the halo. So it's always good to put something positive out. I mean, for example, let's just say the board decided to put in, you know, the little doggy stations where they have the trash can and they've got the the little bags for dog poop and all that stuff. Yep. All you have to do is say, hey, just so you all know where the largest dog walking area is. We've got two new doggy way stations. It could be a paragraph. People like to know that stuff. And after, even though they don't usually see it all at one time, over a period of time, it sinks in that the board is communicating at the same time. You should have things up on your website. I would post minutes up on my website so people have an idea of what is going on. Transparency, transparency, post, maybe limited financial statements, any and any kind of questions always be open. I know when boards feel like they're under attack, they want a stone wall, because it's painful to be under attack, but even when you are that's the time to kind of open up and help ask, take questions and try and answer, try and answer, the best of your ability. And if you can't get the answer and get back to people,

Robert Nordlund: 9:11

I My pen is zooming because I'm taking notes here. I like to spin the halo that reminded me I had someone tell me, long ago, be known for what you're for, not what you're for against, or be known what you're for, not what you're against you're against, right? And that's, yeah, we added two new doggy poop stations. We got a new net on the tennis court. We now have a pickleball net that you can convert the tennis court into a pickleball. It is in the storage room. In case you didn't know all these things that are and I like, I like spinning the halo and invite questions. And like you were saying, you may not want to put out the private financial information of the association. Maybe you just build it into a pie chart where. So you show the big picture and say, Come to Tuesday's board meeting where we'll speak in detail. And then, as you've said so many times, make that board meeting business like yet inviting and organized. Yes,

Julie Adamen: 10:15

yes. And that is well and again, for all you board members who've been serving for years on your boards, because no one else wants to be on the board. You really need to look at yourselves, maybe, and say, Why doesn't everyone anyone want to be on the board if you are having long meetings, meaning 234, hours. I mean a lot of associations do, and if you're just a regular sized Association, I mean anywhere from 50 units to five or 600 honestly, your board meeting shouldn't be any longer than an hour, hour and a half tops, especially for those bigger ones. May have a little bit more stuff to do, but then there are ways to control the length of that meeting, but also you don't want to have a contentious board meeting between factions of board members that looks really bad, and no one wants to sign up for that unpleasant experience, or don't let your meeting get hijacked by contentious attendees, homeowners. There's only, I think Robert, there's only one state that allows homeowners to interrupt meetings, and I interrupt meeting ask questions during a meeting. I think that's Nevada. Am I right?

Robert Nordlund: 11:19

I'm not sure, but I would not be surprised if that it does that, but have that balance between the openness and the open mic opportunity and the time to move on. And in my experience, I gotta be real careful. Here we have a board member audience. There is a natural percentage of people at community associations that are not well suited to live in a community association, yes, and they're going to speak out, and they're going to be discontented, and they're going to make claims founded or unfounded, but they you don't have to worry about that, because they kind of self identify, and anyone in the board meeting was like, there goes crazy. Jane again, you don't have to take a person. I think how you react as a board member sets the tone. If you're not agitated, if you're smiling, and if you're like, yeah, that's crazy. Jane again, I think people are going to appreciate that? Oh, it is crazy Jane, and there's no basis for that. So setting the tone,

Julie Adamen: 12:27

yes, and it is incumbent upon the board, is incumbent upon the incumbents of the board members to set that tone by controlling their reaction. I mean, and even though the person crazy Jane may be embarrassing to you, or you know it, or just is taking forever. You can always cut them off, only give them a few minutes to talk, but right, you know your reaction, all you can control is your reaction. You can't control Jane, she's going to be able to stand up and talk like every other homeowner, just don't let her go on four times as long as every other homeowner. Everybody gets three minutes or five minutes, or whatever your association has decided? Yeah, I

Robert Nordlund: 13:03

like that. Well, I like the subject of board meetings. I see that as almost a commercial for the Association, an opportunity to shine, an opportunity to have the meeting notes, the financials, and so everyone's on the same page, the transparency that you were talking about. What do you think about special events? Do you take some time out of the business to talk about the local community theater? Remember that the local community theater is doing Oklahoma in two weeks. They're good celebrate the start of the high school football season and every home game, we like to root for the the Knights or the Chargers or the possums or whoever they are. Building community. How much of an element can that? Should that be

Julie Adamen: 13:55

in a board meeting? I would say, do that beforehand or after, not during the meeting. Meeting should be only for business, but I think that you're actually talking about spinning the halo of the community itself, because that means everyone's aware of what's going on. I'll tell you, I recently attended a board attended a board meeting of the association that I live in, and they did an absolutely beautiful job now, so granted, it's a very big place, and it's got a lot of amenities, right? But every department head was there, and every department had gave a report, and there was a screen in the front of the room, because it was on a PowerPoint, and they so the all the attendees. And for midsummer, there was a lot of folks there. There was probably 60 people there, which is a lot for midsummer for us, and I'm in the audience. And it was so uncontentious, it was very well run. They stuck to what they were supposed to stick to. And everyone got to hear everything, because all the department heads are there and all they're given there's golf, there's the food and beverage. There's everybody who's there telling what's going on and what's happening in somewhat Minute. Detail, which I thought, I don't, don't know that I would do that. But then again, I was thinking, this is a, this is a 55 plus community I live in here. And, you know, a lot of people this is, they want to know all those details. So I thought that they, they dealt with their audience beautifully, because they want to know all that level of detail. Pretty good deal.

Robert Nordlund: 15:19

That's, that's a transparency, and saying that summer hours for the restaurant are this and you all have known that the whole number 10 on the golf course has been bad for this reason, and we're going to get that fixed beginning in October, and we're going to move forward on our plan to sealcoat the asphalt in Phase four, which are these seven streets, and just all of a sudden you realize, oh, the association is take care of business and reacting to, were

Julie Adamen: 15:48

you as a meeting, because that's what they talked about. No, I'm

Robert Nordlund: 15:52

thinking, because I've been in places like this. But it is that interesting balance of the details that people want to know, to feel comfortable that the board is telling the truth, yes, and without being bored to death by we pruned 37 acacia trees and 18 red maples. And I'm probably getting this all wrong, but you don't need to know all that, but we've hired a new chef. The lifeguards will stop after Labor Day weekend, or the weather is so good that we're extending the swim season one more week, or whatever it is. Boy, that sounds like an association that is functional, and it would be hard for anyone living in that association who gets the email blasts, who goes to a board meeting to say that, yeah, that board members, they're stealing our money data when they're seeing all these good things getting done.

Julie Adamen: 16:48

Yes, yes, and that's exactly what they were doing. This. This association is, I think so the first units, I think, closed in maybe 1989 or 90 and so been around, and they are really good at getting things done as they need to get done. It's and they've spent a lot of reserve money in the last year or two. I just the times I long as I've been here, and it's to upgrade the upgrade the clubhouse, upgrade the restaurant, and it's just, you can see the results. And overall, I have to say, this is a pretty happy community, which I just find astonishing, because everyone has the stereotype, Robert, the stereotype of a 55 and better community of they're all full of, you know, Karens that are always looking for something wrong because they're retired and they're bored. I that could not be further from the truth. I mean, of course, every association is going to have its one percenters that are just awful and you can't do anything about them, but overall, incredibly happy people. It's really and it did it. It shows, it shows,

Robert Nordlund: 17:52

well, that whole idea of community. Well, I've got a couple ideas to follow up on that, but let's take a quick break here to hear from one of our generous sponsors, after which we'll be back with more HOA insights.

Russell Munz: 18:05

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Robert Nordlund: 18:36

Well, during the break, Julie and I were talking about the stereotype that we launched with, and some ways to work around that. But again, we're dealing with stereotype of thinking that people are stealing from the Association, people are power hungry, they're secretive, they're all this kind of stuff. And there's ways around this. And one thing that struck my mind was the idea of the board members being open. What about board members or staff or manager being available in a non business meeting, like coffee with the board, or something like that? Yeah, I

Julie Adamen: 19:12

think that is a really good idea. The association I live in, they do that here. Obviously it's very big, and it's really they will. They call it coffee with the GM, and the GM isn't necessarily the one who talks. They'll have a department head come in and talk, or they'll have someone from the County Sheriff's Office to come in and talk about something, but everybody they give you free coffee and donuts, and people come in, and it's just a really nice way to give people information and allow them to not only feel a part of the process, but they are a part of the process. So they are coming in, they are participating. You are just, you said it earlier. They're the board and administrative staff is building allies. By doing this, you're building allies, as opposed to enemies. They are so transparent. It's it's almost too much information. I mean, you. Not really, but it for me. I was, I sat in this meeting and I listened to the department head, the Mate, mate operations department head, great job. He did a fantastic job. Answered every question. And there weren't very many. There had to be, Oh, I'd say there was 100 people there. And wow. And, yeah, yeah. And this is mid August in Arizona, so it's all of us who were left here in the summertime, the 2000 units, but, but anyway, it was just a terrific thing. Now, of course, the coffee donuts is it's always a it's a nice thing to do for people. I mean, it doesn't cost that much, and you're building goodwill and answering every question possible. And also, I was really impressed, because the board members were all there. They weren't up front, they were in the they were in the audience with the folks, and a couple people asked questions of the board, and they took those questions, fielded them very well, but then the department head goes back on. So I think it's a really good idea that's all that promotion of transparency, and it keeps the board members from from being perceived as the stereotypical board members of a homeowners association. Robert and I were talking about earlier, about the TV shows, TV and or movies, but mostly TV shows that portray homeowners associations. We were talking about Frazier, that old show where Frazier installed the wrong door knocker and the Board President put a note on his tour within, like, a minute. But that kind of stereotypical behavior, which, of course, is based on reality to some degree, but you fight that by consciously not being that you have to really be intentional about how you operate, yep. Well,

Robert Nordlund: 21:38

fight that. Let's talk about the reality. There's my experience. There's going to be one to three, one to 5% of people at a community association that don't fit in. Well, right? At a large place like yours, that may be 2050, people, sure? I

Julie Adamen: 21:57

would say, yeah. I'd say 10% of people are always this. You always hear from the same 10% but of that 10 there, there is really 1% that are really difficult, and that for us, that would be 20 people. So, but that's, you know, 2025, let's just say that. But that can cause havoc, yeah.

Robert Nordlund: 22:16

Now that's what you've been describing as a healthy Association. And so if you have an association of 100 units, and you have two or three or four people that are discontent, that's actually kind of in the normal range, it's a low, low number of percentage points, so you can't get too wound up about you know, we are dysfunctional when you have kind of the normal amount of humans involved at your place. Is that fair to say?

Julie Adamen: 22:45

Absolutely fair to say. I mean, you know, I always describe this industry as life on the bomb squad, because all you deal with are people and things can everything can be going swimmingly. It can be perfect and boom, it blows up because of the people factor, and you can't, you can't control people. You it just doesn't work. Just doesn't work. You try, but then they're gonna, there's gonna be some sabotage if you try to control them.

Robert Nordlund: 23:10

Okay, well, we talked about secretive, power hungry and taking money. So how do you fight that? Just a couple months ago, I was doing a reserve site inspection for a high rise walk into the lobby and there was a little box of pastries, and the note said from the board, happy Tuesday. I was like, geez Louise, already. I like this place, right? How much of that cost? 10 bucks from the local bakery across the street, promoting the bakery, promoting goodness, promoting people feeling welcome home. You can do so many of those little things to help and build the allies, build the people on your team, that all of a sudden you're are fighting that stereotype. Yes, you took $10 of association money to buy the goodies, fine, but I think if you're doing those little things, then they're not going to think that you're buying a Cadillac, or you're lining your retirement fund with Association money or the roof that just got done. If you're taking they won't think that you're taking 10% of it, the openness, of transparency, all these little things, Goodwill.

Julie Adamen: 24:27

It's goodwill you want to build. And you can't do that by, you know, going back into your home or your apartment, you know, and just closing it up and go, I don't want to deal with those people. You can't. It just gets worse, exponentially worse, much, much better to go out and shake hands.

Robert Nordlund: 24:41

Yeah, well, that's it. How you react sets the tone. Standing, welcoming people to board meetings. We can shake their hands again, smiling, saying hello in the lobby, in the rec room, I like that idea of Coffee With A board where it's not an official stiff board meeting. Where you can talk about local community events. You can talk about how it's nice to see that the tree out front is finally blossoming. Or say, Well, what do you think do Do we have enough doggy waste station? So you're a dog walker, aren't you? Gathering information isn't

Julie Adamen: 25:17

exactly and you know, when you do that, you can put your finger on the pulse of what's going on in the community, and then the community does not perceive the board as being out of touch, because that's another one of the stereotypical things, while they're stealing, or they're only in it for themselves, or they love the power, and they're so out of touch with the needs of the community. I mean, we have enough of that in general, politics as it is, the HOA is so close to the home, so close to the to the human beings. It's so close. There's no reason, and, frankly, no excuse, for being out of touch. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 25:49

I like that. I think there's something sensitive about when you're talking about your home, you're talking about my castle, and that goes straight to my heart. And when you're getting in front of that, it's going to be hard for people to say that you are doing bad things when you are available, when you have a smile on your face, when you're communicating effectively, all these kinds of things. And it seems to me like the best offense, excuse me, the best defense is a good offense where you are here and you're saying, Not here, yeah,

Julie Adamen: 26:20

yeah, it's proactive. I mean, as if you know offense defense is correct, but for I just everyone, if you get in front of it and stay proactive, that will save you. I know of like, oh, it takes time to do that. Yes, it does, but that's a lot less time than having to clean it up on the back end for or for being non transparent. Or you may never recover from that, people, the Board may never gain its credibility back. So it's much, much better to be in front and in the front wave of the issues. And that's and that's again, let's bring it right down to being in touch with the community and what's going on and what what is important to them. And you could do that just like this through GM. You know, our at our association, is coffee with the GM, and like I said, they'll be department head or someone come out from the sheriff's office and talk to folks. It's just a really nice way of having being a part of the community and and as board members, honestly, we need to embrace it always. I know it feels like a lot. You're like, oh, I deal with these people all the time, but you signed up for it and do the best that you can in getting embedding yourself with them, and which also will keep you from having that Us and Them thing, because that's also that's another stereotype, Robert, you know, the US versus the board, the board versus the homeowners, and it can be that way, but it's up to The board members to Brian, not let that happen.

Robert Nordlund: 27:43

Yeah, well, I think we get back to the basics that our board member audience signed up to be the board. Maybe them were like you and I, where we got our board experience, because we were responding to a crisis. But they're on the board. They're busy. But I think I just want to emphasize what you said, that if you spend a little bit of time being proactive, that can save a lot of time downstream where being kind and not allowing the tentacles or the claws of dysfunction to begin to manifest themselves. So if you are just focusing on business and otherwise you hide in your home, I think you're doing the association of disservice and

Julie Adamen: 28:24

yourself a disservice that will, that will foster more negative feelings than almost anything, because they feel like, Oh, you just don't want to hear from us. We're just the lowly homeowners, and you're on the board, which it's ridiculous, because they're just homeowners too. But I That's right. You're right.

Robert Nordlund: 28:41

And that goes to the they must be out of touch, they must be secretive, they must be power hungry. They're better than us, and by the way, they're taking our money. And so yeah, being being public is important, and that's a small but a good investment of your time. Well, Julie, as always, it's is great talking with you. I feel like I'm the luckiest guy here, because I get to hear these issues come together, and I feel like I want to promote these ideas as many places as we can. But any closing thoughts to add at this time?

Julie Adamen: 29:11

Well, I just I know we've talked about this so many times, but you know, board members, what you are doing? And I've been a board member on two associations at one time for several years. So I know from whence I speak. And I'm actually running for the board here too. How about that? Just threw my

Robert Nordlund: 29:29

hat in the ring. More, more coffee and donuts on a regular basis. Coffee, that's, I

Julie Adamen: 29:33

don't, not, don't know, donuts.

Robert Nordlund: 29:36

You're on the swim team. Okay? I

Julie Adamen: 29:37

am on the swim team and the swim board. I'm on their board too. So, but, but anyway, I mean, it's when you step up to be a board member, whether it was through a crisis like that's how I originally became a board member at my last place where I lived, and Robert stepped in as well for the association he was on because it was a crisis issue. And we're professionals, so we kind of step in and go, Okay, we know how this is going to work. But. But for all of you board members out there, I just want to make sure you know how valuable your volunteer hours are, and though you don't hear it very often, I'll tell you what, without you, the whole the association would come to a halt. Yeah, and do you ever get to hear that very often? No, so I'm going to go right back to the communication but we talked about this, the spin the halo thing, because once you make people aware, I mean, it's not, you're not just like, you know, Oh, I'm so great. It's not that, but you're making people aware of the good things that you are doing as a board, even if it's a small thing, like, what do we say? Doggy way stations, you know, a new net. So the tennis courts could be pickleball courts. Big deal right now, any one of those small things you think, Oh, that's not a big deal. It is a big deal. Make sure, even if you send out an e blast saying, just so you know, two new pet waste stations at, you know, 123, happy Lane near the dog park. And those little things people do absorb that they may not, you know, say, Oh, thank you for that. But over a period of time, that works, and then people have a greater appreciation for what you do. We Robert and I, we know and Kevin, he we know what you do because we work with you all the time. But General homeowners don't, and they never want your job either. But you know, without you, it would come to a screeching halt. Do make it easy on yourself. Be really proactive about positive communication. Get in front of that wave.

Robert Nordlund: 31:25

I like that well. Julie, thank you. And to our audience, we hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. We look forward to having you join us for another great episode next week

Announcer: 31:38

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