Julie Adamen: 0:00

If you're don't want to talk with people, people are going to have a vacuum there, like, why don't they want to talk to me? Just, what are they doing? Is it secret? And then all of a sudden, everything starts going, yes. What are they hiding? You may be hiding nothing, but that perception out there, which grows exponentially at cocktail time, that perception is is their reality. And then they get on nextdoor.com or on Facebook, and they start talking about it, and pretty soon,

Robert Nordlund: 0:27

why was the board not telling us about anything?

Julie Adamen: 0:31

Yeah, whatever it is, why did they run away from us? Why does that one board member run away? And that was not the intent at all. In fact, they just didn't want to have to talk to anybody. They'd had a bad day.

Jennifer Johnson: 0:40

HOA Insights is brought to you by five companies that care about board members, association, insights and marketplace, association, reserves, community, financials, Hoa invest and Kevin Davis, Insurance Services. You'll find links to their websites and social media in the show notes.

Robert Nordlund: 0:56

Hi, I'm Robert Nordlund of association reserves,

Julie Adamen: 0:59

and I'm Julie adamant of Adam and Inc. And this is HOA Insights, where we promote common sense for common

Robert Nordlund: 1:04

areas. Well, welcome to episode number 85 where we're again speaking with management consultant and regular co host, Julie Adelman. Today we'll be talking about the board member behaviors, not tasks that everyone is doing too often, board members are focusing on the tasks that they need to accomplish, preparing for a meeting, meeting with a landscape or prospect, reviewing the budget, things like that. Today, we'll be addressing behaviors, the idea of how board members do things we want your association to thrive, and it starts with leadership at the top, and that's you. Well, this is a follow up to episode number 84 where we had a fascinating chat with a Florida structural engineer by the name of Greg Batista, and he was speaking about how to care for your buildings. You don't need to know as much as Greg, but what you do need to know is how to have someone like Greg on your team as a resource, someone who will guide you to properly care for your buildings, not just let them deteriorate. So if you missed that episode, take a moment after today's program to listen from our podcast website, Hoa insights.org, or watch on our YouTube channel, where you can also give it a like or better yet, subscribe from any of the major podcast platforms so you don't miss any future episodes, and those of you watching on YouTube can see Julie and I with our HOA insights mugs that I got from our merch store. And you can browse through what we have in our merch store from HOA insights.org or from the link in our show notes, and you'll find we have some specialty items for sale, like these mugs In addition, in addition to some great free stuff, like board member zoom backgrounds. So go to the merch store, find the mug you'd like, and I'll give that mug away free to the 10th person to email podcast@reserves.com with your name and address and mug choice mentioning episode 85 mug giveaway. Well, we enjoy hearing from you responding to the issues you're facing at your association. So if you have a hot topic, a crazy story, or a question you'd like us to address, you can contact us at 805-203-3130, or email us at podcast@reservestudy.com and one of those listener questions prompted today's episode, we have Dennis from Milwaukee, who asked, we're thinking about having an ethics code for our board members. Are there other things we can do to hold board behavior to a high standard? So, Julie, what do you think about that?

Julie Adamen: 3:43

I think it's a great idea. An ethics code is a wonderful thing to do. It's not just good for the board itself, but it's good for the community. And that should definitely be published to the community, is this now you must, and actually, and all people who are running for the board should have to sign on to that as well, that if they get elected, they will adhere to a particular code of ethics that the board adopts, also separate to that. I mean, they, I guess they maybe could be together, but separate. I would also encourage a board conduct policy. So, you know, there's just a set of guidelines that board members agree to follow, and this is more operational than ethical, but an operational type of thing, meaning that they commit to being able to be at board meetings and put in the time that because, you know, it's not just an hour a month people, it's that they got that they know they're going to have to put in this kind of time they're expected to, you know, whatever it is, chair a committee, potentially, if that's how your association works. But anything like that is, is a good way, because it lets, now, I just went down this rabbit hole. It lets be it less good stuff. Yeah, it lets people know what they're getting into. And in fact, that also ought to be given to people who are running for the board. So, yeah, well, it's your this is why we operate. This is how things happen. And. On. It's not that things can't change on that. None of it's written in stone. New boards may find they want to add more stuff. Other boards say that, well, we don't need to deal that anymore, because they don't have to chair committees. We got really good committee chairs that are not board members anymore. So I think, yes, I think it's an excellent idea. It will also tighten up your operations, your daily operations, in fact, because if the board knows how they have to act and the things that are their responsibility operationally, the board itself will function better. I

Robert Nordlund: 5:30

like that. So I think in the past, we've spoken about tasks, and we've had special guests, experts, subject matter experts, talking about the financials, meeting minutes. Thinking back, look at my bookcase here. I have a book on parliamentary procedures, things like that. A lot of the how to do things, specifically the tasks and the do this, do this, do this. But I like the idea of the bigger picture. What guides you, and that ethics policy would be, I might lays out the associations expectations we will do this, the conduct policy. I like that again, the expectation come to the board meeting prepared. Expect to have do your research, to look into the vendor options. Someone's got to research upcoming legislation, whatever it is, but those conduct it's going to be these tasks are involved in being a board member. Yeah,

Julie Adamen: 6:30

it's kind of a job description. Actually. We talked about that before, and I wrote about it in one of the newsletters a while back. A board member job description. And there's, there's two things, there's the operational and then again, there's the bigger picture. So both of those things are requirements. I would consider them requirements, whether or not the board actually has a policy, but to adopt that and publish it and make sure current and future board members know what they're getting into and what their responsibilities are going to be is just to me, there's no downside to it whatsoever.

Robert Nordlund: 7:01

Yeah. And I'm thinking this applies as much to a four unit, little town home as it does to a 4000 home master planned Association. Yep. Okay, yeah. Well, in advance of this, I did some research, and I found an ethics pledge on the CAI website, and I'll make sure we get a link to that in the show notes. Is there a similar conduct policy or a template that you

Julie Adamen: 7:26

know that? Well, ci has that the Civility pledge. I mean, that might be something so that's you could put that on the show notes as well. But as far as the operational thing, I think that would have to be relatively individual to the association. I mean, we could always put, actually, you know, we could probably develop one Robert and make it available at some point. That'd be pretty easy to do. I mean, for us to do that boards, can, you know, add in what applies to them and take out what doesn't same way, it's very similar to job descriptions. So that would be, maybe I'll do that. I will do that actually. Yeah, I

Robert Nordlund: 8:02

was thinking that could be a great thing to have on your admin dash, Inc, website. Yeah,

Julie Adamen: 8:10

exactly. I can do that. And because it would be based on those couple of articles I wrote that were the board member job description, part one and part two, I'll do that. And we can actually make them look like a job description, as opposed to an article which is good, it is now, so that would be great.

Robert Nordlund: 8:23

You have control over that. Yep,

Julie Adamen: 8:25

I do. Okay,

Robert Nordlund: 8:26

we've spoken also in the past about how the leadership has a cascading effect on how well the association is run, how the chemistry is at the Association, the culture at the association. Kevin Davis talks about the temperature at what the association operates. So walk walk me down the path of the board member being a public figure.

Julie Adamen: 8:51

Well, you know, I think the thing that a lot of board members, a lot of board members end up board members because no one else will do the job, and you're the person who stepped in and thank you for that. I've been in that position myself more than once. So I would say, though that, and maybe this could be a part of the operational board, you know that. So there was a code of ethics. And then there was the, what was the other one? We conduct policy. Conduct Policy notes here. I know. Okay, squirrel fast, yeah, I guess what I would say is that people on boards, you have to realize you're a political figure. And I know people go, Oh, politics. But I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean politics just means you're dealing with people. It's people, people everywhere. I can tell you that as much as you may not be an extrovert, in fact, you may rather be in the back reading the financial statements. If you're a board member, you're a public figure, and people are going to come up and talk to you, and you need to make time. You need to talk to them, answer their questions as best you can. Be open, be amenable, smile. There's you know, if you're off. It's been walking down to get your mail from the communal mail area, and people are going to stop and talk to you about something, but if you're not open to that, and you grab your mail and you scurry off, which is a really, really common occurrence in our industry. And honestly, I don't blame a lot of you for it. I get it, but in the long run, you and the community is going to be much better off, because if you're don't want to talk with people, people are going to have a vacuum there, like, why don't they want to talk to me? Just, what are they doing? Is it secret? And then all of a sudden, everything starts going, yes, what are they hiding? And you may be hiding nothing, but that perception out there, which grows exponentially at cocktail time that perception is is their reality. And then they get on nextdoor.com or on Facebook, and they start talking about it, and pretty soon,

Robert Nordlund: 10:50

why is the board not telling us about anything?

Julie Adamen: 10:54

Yeah, whatever it is, why did they run away from us? Why does that one board member run away and that was not the intent at all. In fact, they just didn't want to have to talk to anybody. They'd had a bad day. And I do understand it, but I think it's something as board members, we all need to think about. It's a tough job. It's a hard job, even in the board meetings and making sure things get done and all the other work you do. But yes, you have to be open and amenable and accessible to residents. There's just no way around it. If you don't, you're just setting yourself in the community up for one degree of failure or another.

Robert Nordlund: 11:26

Well, I think it comes down to that transparency you and I have spoken about that previously. If you are the kind of person that you just you love plants, and you want to be the landscaping guru at the association, and you hate the business of it, but you're a board member and someone says, How are you doing and what's going on? And you can be the expert on plants, and you can say, you know, you really need to talk to Fred or Susie or Joni about the financials, because that's not my strength, and it's okay. Smile and say, be polite and say what the truth is of the matter, but the hiding is that's a that's a problem, and understand that. It will take some time. Now, in my perception, working with associations, I think there is a single digit number, a percentage of people that kind of don't belong in a community association. They don't they just don't play well with others. You can't be afraid of that, because that just exists. As a board member, your job is to run the association, and so you're need to be thinking 95% 95% 95% and the 95% of the people who see you as a board members say they're going to say, thank you.

Julie Adamen: 12:42

Yep, they're going to say, or actually, you're not going to hear from a good 80% of people ever, yeah, because they just don't, they don't think about it. You're always going to, you're always going to have that small percentage of people who are really, really difficult. And then there's another group, a little bit bigger of the 10% I would say that is also always kind of in your ear, but they're not as vociferous as that top 3% or 2% the ones you always hear from but always remember. And I have this in my I have online board classes, and I have a whole thing for people to understand that that you cannot lose sight of the happy majority. You can't. You're like, well, we never hear from them. That's right. You don't. When people are happy, you typically don't hear from them. You they may give you a compliment as they see you in the grocery store or something, but that's about it. But you always will hear from that 2% or 1% so you have to

Robert Nordlund: 13:32

let that drive all of your behavior. You have no have that idea in your brain of the happy majority? Yes,

Julie Adamen: 13:38

absolutely. And the thing about answering questions, this just reminds me, as you know, I'm running for the board and this large association I live in, and it's, it's odd because I people, all of a sudden are like, I'm voting for you. I'm like, I don't even know who you are, but okay,

Robert Nordlund: 13:54

but I saw your picture and you're I saw you in the candidate meeting from the audience. I was in the back row. I was in the audience. I didn't spot you in the back row.

Julie Adamen: 14:05

They were in the back row. But you know, and so the people we have two board seats up, and four people running to two of the four are incumbents in those seats. And then there's myself and another gal who's been very, very around the committee. She's been on committees and lived here quite a while, so she's pretty well known. So they had the audience could come ask questions. Well, because I have only lived here about a year, there was a lot of things I could not speak to, and every candidate got to answer the question that was asked, so we just go down the row and answer. So I, even though I can't speak to that specific thing, I didn't clam up and say, No, I just don't know. And I can't answer that. I took a well, this is how we do because of our business. This is what we do as an industry, and this is how we would look at it, as it as a quick example, we have food and beverage, golf, a whole bunch of amenities, type of thing, and someone in the back stood up, obviously not a happy person, said, We want to know. Your stance. For all four of us, there's stance on, on, should we be making money on food and beverage, golf and assessments or so? That's how they put it together, the three sources of income or non income. And so everybody got the answer. I was the last one. I said, Well, all I can tell you is that, as an industry, if you make money on food and beverage, God love you, and you're one in a million, because most of it is a loser financially. However, we all pay for that to see, because of the restaurants go out of business, exactly, let alone in a place like this, that you have a captive audience, but they're gone six months out of the year. And again, just like Robert you were saying, if the person is the plant expert, and they're like, God, I just don't know about that, you need to talk to, you know Fred over here, who's the treasurer for that particular thing. That's not my expertise. That is totally fine. Just as I answered, look at I haven't been here, so I can't answer these specific question you're asking, but I can tell you what, as an industry, we think about, and people were just happy with the answer. They were happy with an answer. And I will say some of the people didn't give really very straightforward answers who have been on the board, and it was very noticeable, very noticeable. So we'll see,

Robert Nordlund: 16:08

yeah, transparency leads to a good temperature at the association, and just being a human and anyone Well, the little things we're talking about board members who are responsible for the care of the common areas. And so who do you want to be a babysitter to care for your children? Who do you want as a teacher to care for the education of your kids? You want them to be straightforward with you. You want to be able to communicate with them. And that's one of the things we can recommend as a board member to have the time you set it to be open, amenable and accessible, and maybe add forthright.

Julie Adamen: 16:51

Forthright, yes, you know. And actually, after that, there's one more thing talking about being forthright. I got a phone call after that particular meeting, the meet, the candidates meeting, and this woman actually was a retired attorney, and she said, and she said, Well, you know, I saw you at that. I just have a really big question for you, is that, do you commit to being actually truthful and transparent? And I said, Yes, because that's again, that's I don't have anything. But yeah, I'd like to a fault for sure, but what I told her was that, if I could, there are things obviously that board members cannot talk about to the homeowners that would have to do with litigation, that you can say we're in litigation and but you can't get into the nitty gritty or collections or that type of thing, right? And I can't speak in detail about that. You can't and that's actually all you have to tell them. I said I I commit to telling you, I will tell you the truth when I can, and if I can't, I'll tell you that too. If I can't tell you, not the truth about it, but if I can't tell you something, I will tell you that I can't tell you. I would like to tell you about this, but we can't. We're, we're and she said, that's perfectly fine. They just, it's interesting, because whether they're out there being gas lighted by current people, I'm not sure, because I don't I haven't lived that experience yet, but they people just don't want to feel like they're being lied to. I mean, you have to look at what's gone on over the last few years. I think people have lost a lot of trust in in, well, let's just look in the government, I mean, in institutions and everything. I mean, and you see failure in lots of places that a lot of it seems self inflicted, but you see it. And you know, a homeowners association. We're not a democracy. We are a republic, and Hoa is a republic, but for and we are like the closest to the ground of any political being, it's us, and because if they don't like it, they're going to come knock on your door or set type of thing. But so it, it's not just your ethical obligation, but it's certainly going to be much, much better for you guys. If, as board members, you are transparent, you are going to tell the truth. And if you can't tell them something, you have to tell them. You can't tell them. Don't just say, we can't answer that. It's like, I'm sorry. No, no

Robert Nordlund: 19:02

comment. Dangerous.

Julie Adamen: 19:03

No comment is like the worst thing you can say to homeowners. I mean, unless you've been instructed by legal counsel to say that for some reason or another, and that's another thing. Let's just talk about that quickly. If, if there's been a situation in your community, say there's been a shooting or something like that, which is relatively common, unfortunately. And you know, we have two associations here. And one had a big brouhaha that people got arrested, not shot, but, but the board president went out and made a 15 minute video about the whole issue and put it out there. I'm like, Oh, my God, that was way too much information. And this association had another incident with a shooting type incident. No one was hurt, and they would not say anything. They just completely clammed up. And people were like, Well, what happened? You know, consult your counsel and say, What can we say? What would and would you write this for me to say? And then don't fly off on your own. And being completely clammed up is probably not the right way, either. So do the best you can do. Be as transparent and truthful if you can't be transparent due to you know what the nature of the issue? Say it. Just tell people that I can't tell you because of x, you will be shocked at what a long way that goes this at the meet, the candidates meeting. I mean, you guys, you've been listening to us for quite a while now, and you can tell that I am. You know, if you don't want me to say it out loud, don't tell it to me because it I'm just going to say it as just who I am. And so not that I don't mean secrets. I'm just saying I just just who I am. If it's if it's if the sky is blue, I'm saying blue. I'm not saying green. I don't care how many times you say it's green. I had people come up to me after that who I could not even give an actual answer. I just said, our industry, this is what we think. And if this is what's going on here, I don't know yet, but this is how I would handle it. Would come up to me and say, Thank you for at least answering the question, and I wasn't even able to give them the exact answer, but they were so happy with forthrightness that I was, it's people love it again. They know when they're being gas lighted and because and they also feel like they have no trust in institutions. And HOAs are no exception. So the more you can do to be trustworthy and to let people know you're trustworthy through your transparency, through your willingness to engage, through not scurrying off and saying no comment, all those type of things. I think I know it's hard, everybody, believe me, I know it's hard, but you will be much better off if you take that kind of tack. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 21:34

you'll have a better association in the end. Well, Julie, this is a great foundation for our conversation today, but now it's time to hear from one of our generous sponsors, after which we'll be right back with more HOA insights.

Russell Munz: 21:46

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Robert Nordlund: 22:18

And we're back. Well, Julie, it's been great. We started this conversation with talking about ethics policy and a conduct policy. Those are some things that can guide the how we do, things leading to transparency. We talked about being open, amenable, accessible, forthright, trustworthy, but we have also spoken in the past about some overarching concepts we've called the four C's, and we actually have a fifth as a bonus. But let's talk about the 4c that generally indicates a healthy board situation.

Julie Adamen: 22:55

So actually, I've been full disclosure Robert's the one who came up with these, but, but here are the 4 Cs with this fifth bonus one. So number one is to be caring. I think, I think all of these could go within the board contact or the board job descriptions, because overall, if you don't care about about the community, or about individual people in the community, you it's just it's never going to work, because you're you're going to be perceived as not caring, because you can't hide that. You can't fake it. We all know that you can't fake it. And the next one is to be curious. You cannot be a board member and have blinders on and just say, Oh, I just, I don't want to look at that right there. Oh, because it means more work, or it means you might uncover something that you didn't want to uncover about a particular person, a vendor or a situation, and you didn't want to do so. Curiosity is the next one, the third one is courageous. I could argue that just being on a board is courageous. It is because you stepped up to the plate and said, Okay, I'll take this on. But also, I would also put into that category of being courageous is being willing to look at situations that maybe have been going on in your community for 15 or 20 years that no one has wanted to touch, such as having, let's just go to reserves, sings to Robert's heart, but that's actually one of the most typical things, because you have to raise assessments to fund your reserves. That takes courage to do that, because you are going to deal with Fallout and so but you're working on behalf of the larger Association, not just the people who live there right now. It's for now and into the future that is your responsibility. So it takes courage to be a board member, but it also takes courage to do once you're on the board, to do the things that need to be done for the overall well being of the community. Four is communicate effectively. Robert, you and I have beat this one to death over the, you know, last two years or so of communicating, and it's and yes, there is no such thing as too much communication. There really just isn't. But I do want to press something, and I've. In my experience here at this community is that we get a lot of communication. And listening to of homeowners around here talk to me, I'm wondering if now we're not sending out the type of communication about particular issues that they care about now, as opposed to what they cared about 10 years ago. What do you just hold well, well, you know, we've had the same this has been brought to my attention, that the same group of volunteers has been managing the community, meaning on the board or on committees, or back on the board and then back on a committee for 20 some years. Okay, more than I realized. And you know, I think inertia just it creeps in. I mean, and a lot of the administrative staff has been here quite a while, the paid staff. And I just think, you I'm not a person for change, just for change's sake, but I do think that, you know, if we get settled in how we did things 10 years ago, and it's not bad, I'm just saying they communicate a tremendous amount, but listening to people again, I'm not sure they're communicating the type of information that today's not only new buyer, but today's mindset. I mean, my goodness, you can get information on anything go online, and yet you can't find out specific things that are going on in the community, not because they're trying to hide it, just because they don't think that. Oh, maybe people want to know about that so, and that's, I can't even tell you if that's the truth or not, but that's what I'm hearing. So communicating appropriately is is and effectively is everything that's a part of smiling, that's a part of shaking hands, because I was kissing babies and shaking hands, you kind of have to do that as a board member and the Robert Do you want to take the bonus one. The

Robert Nordlund: 26:42

bonus is just be consistent. Do it over and over and over again, because, like Julie said, You can't do enough communication. I have my little twists on this from caring. I became a board member because I cared. I wanted to make sure that things were going well. I was mortgage up to my eyeballs, and it had to be successful, and so it was selfish. But in my situation, I was one out of 71 homeowners, and the things that I did because I cared about my home value lifted the home values of 70 other people. And that's leverage. That's great stuff. And remember that there will be a few people that give you the stink eye, or, like you said a moment ago, may you want to knock on your door because the sprinkler next to their home was stuck on last night and it was running all night and they got a lousy night's sleep. And you say, Gee, I'm sorry, thank you for telling me I'll call the plumber or I'll call the landscaper, I'll get it fixed,

Julie Adamen: 27:45

I'll call the manager, whatever it

Robert Nordlund: 27:47

is. Yeah, you can be a problem solver and but someone has to tell you what the problem is, so you can solve it. But you have to care. You have to be curious. Well, why did that happen on that building? Didn't it happen on that building last month also? And that's when you have a heart to heart with the landscaper, because, yeah, you need to care. And the landscaper says, Well, you guys been paying me the bare minimum for the last eight years, and I don't have enough budget to get this darn thing fixed. And you realize, okay, and then that's when we get into courageous because not change for change sake, but momentum is sometimes a good thing when it's good, and sometimes it's a really bad thing. When it's bad, you need to have the courage to change what needs to be changed. That means going from, I'm just picking a number here, going from $2,500 a month for the landscaper to 3000 a month, just so that the landscaping company can get done what needs to be done. Get some fresh plants out by the entry sign. Get tear out some of those old bushes that really saw better days a decade ago. You're there to lead, and that takes courage to press forward communicating effectively. When you were talking, I was thinking the methods of communication and the opportunities for communication, and we got a push three, four years ago with COVID, to go to online meetings. That was probably a good push. I think that was good for communities. What I hear is more board member, board member, attendance, board meeting. Attendance increased during COVID Because it was easier for people to just log on on their computer and see what was going on. But I think an unrealized opportunity is a short two minute video. Here's a recap of what's going on this month at our association. We expect to have the new plantings in the front. We expect to turn building number five waters off on the 17th. So be ready for that. It doesn't take a long time to be transparent. Speak into a camera. You can have your notes here and just two minutes Say what's up. And people can consume two minutes and. You

Julie Adamen: 30:00

could do it on your phone. It doesn't heavily, yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 30:04

it doesn't have to be fancy, but I'm really I'm getting goosebumps, the transparency, the clarity, the trust you can build. There's so many ways that can be well done for your association, and just do it over and over and over again, be consistent, because you are part of board members that someone handed the baton to you, and you want to be able to successfully hand the baton to the next people. And build good systems. Have a notebook or a drop box or something where you have continuity, so that when you get off the board in a healthy way in two years or three years, or whenever it is, people know what you did and why, and they say, oh, yeah, that Who was that guy? Is it Richard or Ronnie? No, it's Robert. It was Robert. That's a guy. He did it this way, and it was a good thing, and they will do that until someone has the courage to make it better years now into the future. Yeah, lots of, lots of good things,

Julie Adamen: 31:10

really good things. What I just this will be a short note, because I know we're running short on time now, is that consistency. It's just like, you know, being on a board, you're kind of like a parent in certain ways, because what do kids thrive on? And actually, and your pets too, they thrive on consistency, when, when things are I'm not saying static. I'm saying consistent. You have the consistent meetings, you have consistent communication. You're consistently, you know, nice when people talk to you, you're consistently looking out for the community as a whole, that stable platform of operations can is the difference between having a chaotic, unhappy Association and having a happy, stable association. So it's you don't think about it, but it's true. Yeah, it's

Robert Nordlund: 31:56

not the physical buildings, it's the board members leading it, and just what you said reminded me of when we got a big dog as a puppy. Many years ago, we committed to training the dog well, and the trainer made it very clear he was going to spend more time training us than he was the dog. That's right, be consistent to give assistant commands. So we weren't just confusing this dog we were saying when we say this, this is what we mean you to do. And that dog was happy to know that when we said this, The dog did this. Everyone was happy, and it was a wonderful thing. And you can do that at your community. It's not the buildings, it's a leadership. It is Julie as always. It's great talking with you. Any closing thoughts to add at this time, not

Julie Adamen: 32:42

so much. I just want to plug my online classes for board members. It might be something that you guys want to look at. You can go to my website, which is, if you Google me, Julie Adam, and you'll find the website Adam and inc.com and you can click on the Education tab, and there are, there's four hours worth of course material for board members for$75 so take a look. I think it would really help out a lot of you folks, and

Robert Nordlund: 33:03

in the short term, give her a little bit of time. But I have a feeling she's going to end up having a conduct policy somewhere on her website, too,

Julie Adamen: 33:10

somewhere,

Robert Nordlund: 33:11

somewhere. Yeah, I

Julie Adamen: 33:12

think so too. Yep, I think you're

Robert Nordlund: 33:14

inspiring. You the audience are inspiring us. Now, hey, well, we hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. We look forward to having you join us for another great episode next week.

Jennifer Johnson: 33:30

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