Julie Adamen: 0:00

Make no mistake, our industry is a snowball. Yeah, it's never ending deadlines. It's never ending problems, whether you're on the management end, the business partner end, or the board member end, okay, it's always continual. There's almost no rest whatsoever. So you can't let that snowball get let that little, tiny snowball all of a sudden, you know, take out the village below.

Announcer: 0:21

HOA Insights is brought to you by five companies that care about board members, association, insights and marketplace, association, reserves, community, financials, Hoa invest and Kevin Davis Insurance Services. You'll find links to their websites and social media in the show notes.

Robert Nordlund: 0:37

Hi, I'm Robert Northland of association reserves, and I'm Kevin Davis of Kevin Davis Insurance Services,

Julie Adamen: 0:43

and I'm Julie Adamen with Adamen Inc. And this is HOA Insights, where we promote common sense

Robert Nordlund: 0:48

for common areas. Welcome to episode number 100 where we're again speaking with insurance expert and regular co host Kevin Davis and management consultant and regular co host Julie adamen to celebrate our 100th HOA insights podcast episode. So today, we've got all three co hosts together together. We've been moving this podcast forward, serving our audience of 2 million volunteer HOA board members nationwide, so they will have the right information at the right time to make the right decisions for the future of their association. That's a big goal, but it's been a fun first 100 episodes, and it's been nice to see our audience grow week by week. For those of you who've been telling others about the podcast or giving the podcast a great review, thank you very much. That all helps more people to find the podcast, and means that more associations benefit from the stories, the insights and the answers that we've shared. We want you, our podcast audience, to be well informed and to be well prepared for the challenging work you do leading your association. Last week's episode number 99 featured an interview with Calvin Ball, another one of our monthly board hero episodes. If you missed that episode or any other prior episode, take a moment after today's program to listen from our podcast website, Hoa insights.org or watch our YouTube channel and, better yet, subscribe from any of the major podcast platforms so you don't miss any future episodes. Well, those of you watching on YouTube can see the HOA insights mugs that we all have here. Those are available at our merch store, which you can browse through from our HOA insights.org website or the link in our show notes. And you'll find that we also have some great free stuff there, like board member zoom backgrounds and some specialty items, like the kind of mugs that we've been showing so go to the merch store, download a free zoom background, and while you're there, take a moment, look around, find the mug you'd like and email me at podcast@reserves.com with your name, shipping address, mug choice, and mention episode 100 mug giveaway. And if you're the 10th person to email me, I'll ship that mug to you free of charge. Well, actually, hey, this is the 100th episode, so let's give way two mugs to the 10th and the 20th person to email me requesting a mug We enjoy hearing from you responding to the issues you're facing at your association. So if you have a hot topic, crazy story or question you'd like to have us address. You can always contact us at 805-203-3130, or email us at podcast@reserve.com, we're your community, but today it's going to be the three of us thinking back on our favorite episodes or things we've learned. So here we are. Kevin, why don't you tell me? Do you look forward to podcast episodes, or do you dread taking an hour out of your day to do the recording?

Kevin Davis: 3:47

You know? Robert, first of all, I'm glad to be here and Julie, glad to be here with you. I really enjoy these podcasts. And the reason why because I'm learning as an insurance professional, my jobs evaluate Community Association to find out which ones we are worth insuring or not. But what we do in these podcasts is that we end up giving pieces of advice to say that we want you to be a better Association, so you get better insurance coverage, but you also can enjoy living in a community association that successful. So whenever we talk, whenever we get together, it's always the same thing. These are things you need to do to have a better, more well run Community Association. So yes, Robert, I love doing these things. Fantastic.

Julie Adamen: 4:31

Julie, Oh, I love doing them too. I look forward to it. It's, you know, I learned so much just from the questions that people put in and the question, you know, they email us or give you all a call and what they want to know, it's just so interesting to find out what really are the problems going on with board members today? And honestly, they're not that much different than 35 years ago or 40 years ago. Everything's just faster. And so it's really fascinating, and it's really fun to be able to help them, because honestly, they. Really have nowhere to turn. Other than either an employee, staff member, or if they're self managed, they have nowhere to turn. So it's it's very gratifying to do this.

Robert Nordlund: 5:09

Well, I just think of the time that we spend going to trade shows and doing other things, the webinars we do. And here we have a podcast where you can just discuss things, and people can consume it at their leisure, their convenience, in the car, wherever they might happen to be. And I feel like just the luckiest guy, because I've got an opportunity to hear from the experts that we've had to chat regularly, Kevin, with you, with Julie, with you, hear what's on your mind, lessons that you've learned, and we're talking about decades of experience here, and then the HOA board heroes to sit back and think, by golly, you guys are doing it, yeah, and you're doing it. Well, yeah,

Kevin Davis: 5:47

Robert, let me say this is really interesting, because every Monday I go into work, I listen to these things, and it's amazing thing I learned about how the boards can interact a little bit better. And I feel positive at the end of the things, because basically I see the negative parts of community associations all the time, and so I get a chance to hear some of these specialist stories of board heroes and that they are focused in on having, you know, a better, more well rounded, more managed association. So I enjoy and I enjoy hearing Julie. I love what your your talks in terms of how them, how you run these associations, how you manage them, how you make them more successful. We're all about that. We're all about because the more successful you are, guess what? The cheaper your insurance is going to be, and the more insurable you're going to be. So this has been getting great.

Julie Adamen: 6:34

And you know, I'm keying off of that, the more successful the boards are, the more successful the industry is as a whole. And I would tell you all, you people out there, I think between the three of us, we have 120 years of experience in the HOA sphere. I hate that, but it's true. I think we, we all, yeah, well, nobody else, well, it's, it's just been such a fascinating journey with this and for us, the better the industry is because, as all you well, you listeners and you people who are following me on YouTube is that, you know, you're typically board members or people within and around the industry. You know how negative publicity? All we get is negative publicity. You never hear about anything positive. And I think that's what we're trying to make it better. The nature of the business is that we're probably going to have so many challenges all the time. But if you can shine a light on people who are doing a really good job and better ways to do things and doing best practices, everybody, everybody wins, everybody.

Kevin Davis: 7:30

And that's a good point, too. One more thing Robert is that what we've been able to do, no matter how bad the stories I may tell or Julie may tell, we always wind it up saying these are the three things you may bring yourself to make it better. Yeah, we always leave with how to make it better. I

Robert Nordlund: 7:45

think of incremental improvement. So in weekly 30 minute doses, or something close to 30 minutes, we're able to say, okay, these are some tidbits, some great takeaways. Pick this up. Share these and boy, leveraged across so many associations, one idea at a time, just getting a little bit better. Kevin, I like when I think of this, I think back on you talking about how to lower the temperature your community calm people down. And Julie, you keep talking about communication, just stressing the communication if the board, and you've said nature abhors a vacuum, and so if you're not communicating effectively, that's when the rumor mill starts and bad things start to happen. So just some of these little things that we can do to encourage effective behavior, and then just the leverage to all the homeowners in your association, the benefit

Julie Adamen: 8:37

and how to get the you know, the board, since they're doing this as volunteers, even if they are retired and they're doing this as volunteers, still they do not have the background that you two do, or that I do, to think in the way that we are. Well, think about doing something this way. Or eight, let's put it across in this way, instead of, you know, coming at people with your, you know, finger wagging, as opposed to, like, kind of hurting your cats in the right direction. It's not their fault. It isn't their discipline. And dealing and managing with volunteers is very difficult, and unless you've done it, you don't know exactly how to do it. So and with homeowners, of course, who are stakeholders, and oftentimes they're stakeholders, who always want to, you know, do this in the background, but they don't want to volunteer for a position of responsibility. And I think the boards will often get to where they're well, they just do. I don't want to hear from those people. They don't want to do it. I think just helping them how to think about things has been, well, I know, because I know the kind of feedback we get. So I think it's but it's just, it's great. And I'm really proud of this podcast. I really am, and

Kevin Davis: 9:39

I think that's the one thing we learn is that the boards, or is a disconnect now between the boards and the people who live there. And when we talk about low in the temperature is more about communicating better. So if you can communicate better, people want to be heard. They want to be heard, and the boards can't put that stop. Sign up anymore and go, stop. I. Don't want to hear it anymore, because that's created a lot of the problems that we've been seeing from the lawsuit point of view. People want to be heard.

Robert Nordlund: 10:07

Yeah, you don't want to elevate things to a conflict. You want to have. The strategies are going to soften things down and try to build community, neighbors, a smile here and there, tolerance. We've got, yes, different people, different ages, different backgrounds, at different places in life, people with kids, people with dogs, people who are always gone because they're working or traveling. And you put these all people together in a community,

Julie Adamen: 10:36

you shake it, shake it out.

Robert Nordlund: 10:38

And sometimes it ends up upside down.

Julie Adamen: 10:40

Yeah, it does. Or sometimes it seems nitroglycerin in there, and you didn't realize it. You know what? Kevin said something earlier, and he said it was like, We because, you know, he's dealing with insurance, and Robert, you're with reserves and me and management consulting and recruiting, and that kind of thing is that we're, we always end up initially dealing with some negativity in the association. So, you know, Robert comes in, or his company comes in and says, Oh, you don't have enough in reserves. Kevin comes in going, Oh, your insurance premium is going to go off because of x,

Robert Nordlund: 11:10

and I'm going painting us with the bad guys,

Julie Adamen: 11:12

right? And still, we're the ones who help them get out, of course, that I'm the one, and they're going, you're doing this totally wrong, but, but each of us has as because we've been doing it so long, each of us has a particular way of saying that, to bring the people to come to a realization that, oh, okay, we can do something slightly different and have a much more positive income. And that thing about stop that is, I talk about that all the time with boards, is that you just as much as boards don't want to be, and even if it's not in their nature, and believe me, I understand it, you got to be a politician. You are a politician. There's I don't mean that in a bad sense. I mean that in the people sense. If you're walking to the mailbox and someone stops you, shake hands and say hi, even if it's not pleasant, look them in the eye, listen to him for appropriate amount of time, and I don't mean 30 seconds, please give a couple minutes and get back to him or shake their hand and say thank you for giving me that information. I know it's hard. I know I've been in your position, but you got to do it.

Kevin Davis: 12:13

You hit the nail on the head, because it's easier to sue the board of director. It's harder to sue Robert and Julie. This is if I see Robert and Julie outside, yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, I could easily write a nasty letter, because I'm tired of my car being towed away. I'm tired of being, uh, upset because you might you don't make my pick and stay in the vast letters of the board. But if I see Robert out there, or if I see Julie out there, you know, it's hard to be mad at them, especially

Julie Adamen: 12:40

they smile at me, and that's the truth. I mean, you're that, if when you as board members or anyone actually creating a personal relationship, somebody with someone, even just by shaking their hands thanking them for coming at a to a board meeting or whatever, and making sure they know your first name, and you talk with them a little bit, that can go miles to making things a lot smoother in the association, and yes, you're right. It's very difficult to sue people. It's easier to sue something that I don't like, not someone. Some, this is easy to sue. They, those guys, that's right. They, yeah, yeah, exactly them. It's them.

Robert Nordlund: 13:15

Well, what about some favorite memories? Take me back a little bit down memory lane.

Kevin Davis: 13:21

Fun One I did was my first ones I did about location, about where you can get sued, and we narrowed it down. If you live on the east coast, anywhere east of 95 you don't have a lot of problems. And on the West Coast, if you're west of I five, you're gonna have a lot of problems. So it was kind of funny going through the different areas, and then if you're around the Gulf of Mexico, or if you're around the Great Lakes, so you're gonna get trouble. If you live in the middle areas, is less trouble, but we know exactly where you would have more clients because

Julie Adamen: 13:51

there's no water there.

Kevin Davis: 13:53

I don't it just happens that way. I mean, it's but if you, especially, I 95 from from the tip all the way to all, every US, all your claims going to come from. There's more value there. And we found out also to your claims, where the higher, the more money you have, the more likely you're going to have a claim. You know liability

Julie Adamen: 14:13

Well, yeah, because they can afford to do it, to

Kevin Davis: 14:15

call your lawyer up, or, you know someone is a lawyer and, um, the lawyer, yeah. But if you live west of 95 guess what happens? You go to work, you have the same issues. You're still upset because you have the collected assessments, you have the funded free reserves. You still have the same issues, but you go to work the next day, you don't call up, you don't have free time, like if you are retired, like if you're in Florida. So you have time to look out that window and see, wait a minute, the landscaper came, but he missed my side, so I want you to call him back and come back later on today, or the trash cans. The trash cans been out for 48 hours, and we know they should be returned back. So again, we know where they're at if we are 95 east of 95 those kind of claims, we're going to get west of 95 this. Took up sick, but they don't call their attorneys. That

Julie Adamen: 15:03

is fascinating, but it makes perfect sense. It makes absolute perfect sense.

Robert Nordlund: 15:08

Kevin, another insurance issue is something I read about automobiles in that most accidents happen within 10 miles of your home, or something like that. And as you were talking about the geographic split, I thought, well, move, but like 95 I moved, so I'd be in a nicer place. Well, you know, your problems tend to go with you. So who you are,

Julie Adamen: 15:32

it's not where you live, it's how you live. That's it. That

Robert Nordlund: 15:35

is exactly and the mindset you bring to it. And I've talked to people who are board hero candidates, and they talk about how they got on the board for a particular reason, but then over the years, the board composition changed, different people with different motives, different personalities, and then it became no fun anymore. And so I think we have to appreciate that we're not just talking about associations here. We're talking about the personalities, the chemistry of a board, and how that can lead towards a more effective situation or a more difficult situation. So there's so many dynamics everywhere we look on this,

Julie Adamen: 16:11

you guys have noticed this, I'm sure, is that boards, especially associations, you've dealt with over the years, you know, and having many, many, many moons ago, I was a manager, but associations go through a cycle, you know, it's like, it says everything could be a mess. And then new people come in. They really do a lot of heavy lifting. They straighten out everything that goes or almost everything they possibly can. And then everybody forgets that they're the ones who did that and move. Then they vote for the loudest squeaky wheel the next time. And it, I would say, depending on the association. Of course, it's about a five year life cycle. When I was a manager, that was exactly what the life cycle was. And not coincidentally, the average on site manager who works either for a management company or in house for the association lasts there right about five years. Now. There are outliers, people who've been somewhere for 20 years, people are there for a year. But it's the life cycle, and it's very much like a city manager. I think their life cycle is only two and a half years. It's because the new people come in and they want to know why you haven't invented cold fusion yet, but when you came in, everything was a disaster, and you and that board got everything fixed up. But people have very short memories, and I think that whipsaw is difficult for homeowners and residents to deal with, because there's always one big, squeaky group that comes in and they want to recall or whatever it is, and then the normal people come in and they start taking care of business the way it's supposed to be done. And I don't see it changing, because what are we? We're a rotating volunteer management business. The boards are all volunteers. They're doing it on their own time. I would say 85% of board members are trying to do their absolute best, but that 15% can take that 85% just shove them right off the cliff, suck

Robert Nordlund: 17:49

the life out of you. Yeah, yeah. And that's why

Kevin Davis: 17:51

it's so important podcast, because what we do is educate them so that educated board is going to do a better job than when it's not educated. Simple as that, they still gonna make mistakes. They're still gonna have that 15% the yelling at them, but they will know that, look, all we're doing is following the rules. Is outlined in the governing documents. But you have to understand that, once they understand that they have a defense they have a defendable position when

Robert Nordlund: 18:16

it comes to the things that we do. Yes, we, in the reserve site business, often give harsh advice that you need to spend more of your money taking care of the property. But my heart beats in saying, you know, it would be better if, and I think all of us want to have more peaceful communities. Want to have more safe communities, more successful communities. And Jewel you talked about our years in the industry, we've seen so many things, and we can say, you know, it would be a little bit better if, again, I love having this podcast, so once a week, we can give a little bit of tidbit to make your life a little bit better. And again, by extension, the life of the all the owners in the association, yeah, absolutely. I think there's a good time. Let's take a quick break to hear from one of our generous sponsors, after which we'll be back with more common sense for common areas,

Paige Daniels: 19:05

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Robert Nordlund: 19:37

And we're back. Well during the break, we were talking about more memories that would have been edited on the showroom floor. But Kevin, tell me you mentioned a moment ago about how so often we're able to leave people with a piece of advice. So what is one of the major things that here on the 100th episode, you'd like to reinforce to our audience?

Kevin Davis: 20:00

Yes, the audience have to understand that we live in a post COVID world. And a post COVID world means that right now, you know, it's 1042 you know, in a California and normally at 1042 I'm in the office, but because I live in the post COVID world, I'm working from home. Okay, then landscapers came earlier, blowing everything, and for me, you know, we got great headsets. But again, that is a problem where we live at right now, because now you have people smoking, leaving cigarette butts. Okay. We have pickleball, okay. We have all these distractions. We have COVID, pets that bark now that the other owner goes back, goes to work them. So my message is, understand we live in this world and don't react to everything. Take a step back and lower the temperature. Don't get too upset, don't get too excited, but lower the temperature. We live in a post COVID world, and we have to be more responsible as a result. We're not going to work eight to four or five coming home every day and watching Netflix anymore. We're home two o'clock in the afternoon. That's

Robert Nordlund: 20:59

interesting. It is a different world, and so that's going to place higher demands on our board member audience. It

Julie Adamen: 21:05

does. That's true. I want to key right in on that, because we alluded earlier in the podcast to about how many lawsuits there are in associations now, and it's at a much higher level. And that is indicative of, yes, indeed, we are living in a post COVID world. It will never be the same. It is completely different. And you board members are not crazy. People are a little more difficult to deal with. People are rotating out of boards much faster than they used to back in the day. You two will remember board people sit on a board for, you know, 345, terms. You know, they would do that. Now, the challenge is for, and I got this from various management companies is for them to find people who will get on the board at all, who and who will stay through even one term. Many of them just quit midterm because the people are so difficult to deal with. So Kevin's idea, and the way he articulates that of lowering the temperature is exactly what we have to do as board members. Yes, you can get spun up, and you're not wrong. People may be crazy, they may be nasty to you, but you are the one who has to step back, take the deep breath and lower the temperature in the room, and again, create those relationships by saying, you know, shaking hands, saying, Hello, Hi. I'm Julie. You know, nice to meet you, even if the person is going to be unpleasant. And my number one thing, Kevin's has been lowered the temperature, and mine has been, I never thought of it this way, but lower the temperature through communicating and really being intentional about how you communicate to the residents as a board member and as a board as a whole, if you don't. Again, nature abhors the vacuum. Rumors and innuendo come in, they grow exponentially at cocktail time. I know everyone knows that, and it's just it's true, so it's being intentional about your communication, in what you're communicating, how you're communicating, and how often. There's no such thing as too much go. Kevin,

Kevin Davis: 22:55

let me add into this, because this is the issue that we've constantly been talking about. Because what happens if you don't? What happens if you don't? The lawsuits come in and we talk about something called reputational damages, reputational harm. I've been living in this community association for years, and you've mistreated me, you know, you have a meeting and I'm at the pool, and all of a sudden you labeled me as someone who is not paying their assessments, somebody who doesn't obey the laws or the rules of the association. You label me, yes, you know, as a nut case in the association. So we're hearing more if the boards don't communicate properly, if they don't lower the temperature, that's where lawsuits come into play. We're talking about harassment, bullying, discrimination. Claims have risen over the past three or four years because they are home. That's

Robert Nordlund: 23:39

right, both of you have been talking about civility communication. I like it because I end up writing a whole lot of notes about our conversation just because I like what's going on. Podcast recording is often the best hour of my day when we're doing this kind of thing. My flavor on that is trying to increase civility, trying to increase the communication, trying to lower the temperature the way I see it. And maybe that's engineer background is I like to keep the problem small. So if I can do something to make the problem a little bit smaller, then it's a little bit easier to attack. And one of the things that we say to our clients is you're not saving for some humongous roof project 10 years in the future. All you're doing is just offsetting ongoing deterioration this month and 12 times this year. You know, just keep your problems small. And I love that we have this podcast so we can try to make those problems smaller. Let them keep them from getting turning into lawsuits. And Julie shake their hand, smile. Let them release a little bit of pressure and help them see that you're not the evil person that they read about in the newsletter or misread about in the newsletter. Again, for me, it's all trying to

Julie Adamen: 24:55

keep those problems small. When you keep your problems as small as possible. In other words, don't let them. Just grow out because you don't want to shake hands. Just don't let them get huge. But if you keep them smaller, it's easier to bite at that elephant. The smaller the elephant is, the easier it is to start solving the problem as a as a board, as a board as a whole, and as a board member. But when they start getting bigger and bigger, all of a sudden it gets overwhelming. I mean, it's, make no mistake, our industry is a snowball. Yeah, it's never ending deadlines. It's never ending problems, whether you're on the management end, the business partner end, or the board member end, okay, it's always continual. There's almost no rest whatsoever. So you can't let that snowball get let that little, tiny snowball all of a sudden, you know, take out the village below, and that's what will happen. So Roberts, you're absolutely right, and love the way you say it, and it's all all a part of keeping the temperature down. And do that by communicating, which keeps the civility, you know, at a manageable level, and it keeps the problems, most of them, at a more manageable level. For the volunteer board members, I think

Robert Nordlund: 26:00

of it a little bit like the post office. The

Kevin Davis: 26:00

And I think that's the key. Is that when you have problems keep coming and coming and coming and coming every day, these ideas and you have to go out and execute the ideas, the every week, every month. It's a lack of rain, and so the landscaper has to adjust the sprinklers too much rain, and you've got problems with roof leaks. There's so many different things. And every month has its own set of problems. And so we want to try to keep those problems small. We want to give you some helpful hints to ah, that's a good idea. All those little things that come together. easiest thing to do is to say, Uh oh, the roof is leaking. Well, we'll deal with that tomorrow. We have to worry about the budget today. And that would create the problem is that it's easier to say, well, the budget is more important than the route or collecting this. You know, the enforcing the rules is we can't do everything, and so they do nothing. And that, again, this would goes back to our conversations. The easiest thing that the easiest decision is no decision, yes, and no decision is a decision. No decision, decision, you're right. That's

Robert Nordlund: 27:05

a bad decision. Yeah, exactly. You got to keep going. And got to do you got to keep moving the ship of the association forward. What of the association? I was trying to be careful, the ship, S, H, I, P, the the cruiser, the yacht, the yacht, some of them are yachts. Okay. Gathered some statistics. So for those of you who are interested, the top five most popular episodes were number 52 how to successfully recruit fresh HOA board members. Number 55 what happens when you file an HOA insurance claim? I wonder what these are all telling us. Episode 50, how to run a great HOA board meeting. Episode Number eight, gone in 60 minutes, effective HOA board meetings. Episode 47 this was a live one. HOA reserves, daily legislation. Is your state next? What do we learn from those I think we're trying to attack problems from different sides, which is kind of what we've been talking about. And our media team told us that 60% of all listeners are all all people who consume the podcast listen to it, and what surprised me is 40% of all people view the podcast. They watch it on the YouTube channel, so they're literally watching us smile and chat and grin and show our mugs and whatever else we do here. So it's been fun from so many different angles.

Kevin Davis: 28:37

Yes, it has been. And again, we look forward to doing the next country together?

Robert Nordlund: 28:41

Yes, yep. Well, I like it because I have now subject matter experts emailing me and saying, Hey Robert, I've got something I'd like to share with your audience. And I'm like, wow, they're coming to me. And Kevin, I know you're driving in your car or you're talking to your wife, and you say, you got a thought. You say, Hey, Robert, what about we talk about this next time? And I love that, because your head stirring. And Julie, same thing with you. Like I just wrote an article. Do you mind if we talk about it on the next podcast? And it's just funny, because, yeah, this gives us a vehicle to be able to do that. Well, I am looking at the time here, so, gee, we could. We'll have to do this again. Thank you, Kevin and Julie, as always, it's great talking with you. Any closing thoughts to add at this time? Kevin, yeah,

Kevin Davis: 29:27

again, for us, it's about a matter of education. You have to, if you are a board member, just take every, every Monday, turn your radio on radio, whatever,

Julie Adamen: 29:40

the phonograph

Kevin Davis: 29:43

the recoed player, right? Yeah, but, but these half an hours are so important because it just gives you a little bit more insight that you can't get anywhere else. I mean, you can turn a webinar, and we all do webinars, but this is a conversation that we have about issues that impact community, associations and. It is nothing like that you can get anywhere else in the

Julie Adamen: 30:02

country. I would agree with that completely, that this has been and will continue to be, just a highlight of the every other week or the month, however often we actually record. I love the fact that most of these are very intrinsic. It doesn't matter whether you watch it this month or a year from now, because so many of the things that we talk about are just endemic to the industry and endemic to be a volunteer board member. And one thing I do want to say, I want to thank Robert, because Robert and Kathy and Paige and I know I'm missing people and everybody at Stoke Light. If it wasn't for them, this would not happen. So thank you, Robert for doing this. It was great, great to brainstorm there. Pal, yeah, and

Kevin Davis: 30:40

make one more comment too, Robert, is that you do an incredible job. Because I I've done this one time where I interviewed Robin menu on insurance, and that is tough. It's easier to speak than it is to do what you're doing. So you do an incredible job, and I've done it. It's more fun be on this side. That's for sure.

Julie Adamen: 31:00

Robin Nordlund the new Joe Rogan,

Robert Nordlund: 31:02

actually a long time ago, or I guess three years ago, our my marketing staff said we should do a podcast. And my initial thought was, I need that like I need a hole in the head and but I meant it when I said it a few minutes ago that a podcast recording is often the highlight of my day, where I'm speaking to someone special, Julie, you Kevin, a subject matter expert, and just the board heroes and finding something fascinating about them. We had a board hero just a few weeks ago who had, was it a drug bust in their association, and just the crazy things that you deal with, and it comes down to the normal things that we're again trying to lower the temperature and keep your problems small, give you some communication clues to help your association be a little bit nicer, easier, property values a little bit higher, little bit smoother. Well, we hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. Thank you for being a part of our first 100 episodes, and we look forward to bringing many more episodes to you, week after week after week. The problems keep coming, and we'll keep coming after it with solutions. So we'll be here. It'll be great to have you join us on a regular basis. So spread the word. Thank you, and we'll see you next week.

Announcer: 32:24

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