Melissa Ramsey: 0:00

I've done a lot of talks on emotional intelligence in the last couple of years, and what I see a lot in our industry and within you know, the community management space, is that people don't know how to deal and cope with their emotions. You take their emotions, and you add on other people's emotions, and everyone just isn't sure how to handle that and to talk about it. So you first have to figure out, how do I cope, and then, in turn, you can help when other people are coming at you with their emotion.

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Robert Nordlund: 0:50

Welcome back to Hoa insights: Common Sense for Common Areas. I'm Robert Nordlund, and I'm here today for episode 119 with a special guest I've seen at CAI conferences for years she's been making a name for herself on a national level, so it's my pleasure to introduce her to you today. Melissa Ramsey is from a management background. She lives in South Carolina and has a whole list of credentials behind her name, but at this time, she's most notably the president of Cai nationals Board of Trustees. So it's a real treat to have her on the program to share some of the insights she's learned from her decades on how you have decades of experience, but it all adds up decades of experience in there, in the community, association, industry. Well, last week's episode 118 was another conversation with regular co host Julie ademan on management and people and culture and community associations, there's always something interesting going on. If you missed that episode or any other prior episode, take a moment after today's program to listen from our podcast website, Hoa insights.org, or watch on our YouTube channel. But better yet, subscribe from any of the major podcast platforms so you don't miss any future episodes. Well, those of you watching on YouTube can see the HOA insights mug I have here. It's featuring a deteriorated Association and people complaining about reserve funding, something near and dear to my heart, and I got that from our merch store, which can browse through from our Hoa insights.org website, or the link in our show notes, you'll find we have some great free stuff there, like board member zoom backgrounds and some specialty items for sale, like the mug. So go to the merch store, download a free zoom background, take a moment look around, find the mug you'd like and email me at podcast, at reserves, a.com with your name, shipping address and mug choice, mentioning episode 119 mug giveaway, and if you're the 10th person to email me, I'll ship that mug to you free of charge. Well, we enjoy hearing from you responding to the issues that you're facing at your association. So if you have a hot topic, a crazy story, or a question you'd like us to address, you can contact us at 805-203-3130, or email us at podcast at reserve, study.com this episode was prompted by Denise from Phoenix, who asked, I'm in my third term as A board member. I think I'm doing a good job, but I find myself crying more. How do I balance the good feelings of what I'm doing for my association with the bad feelings deep in my heart? And I think that resonates with a lot of people in our audience. It's emails like this that made me want to get Melissa on the program. So, Melissa, welcome to the program. And how would you respond to Denise, well, thank you for having me.

Melissa Ramsey: 3:47

This is quite the question to pose and to you know, have a board member saying that they have that bad feeling deep in their heart that's hard to hear you don't you know, want a board member feeling that way. You want a volunteer experience to be enjoyable in thinking about that. You know, my first instinct was, why the bad feelings? And why is it so deep? So is it related to the association, or is it coming from a personal place? And I think a lot of times we commingle our personal, professional, volunteer life, and we lose sight of what's driving our emotions. Are you talking

Robert Nordlund: 4:29

about the budget is tough, or is it like a personal attack because someone doesn't like that they can't be in the pool after 10 o'clock.

Melissa Ramsey: 4:41

Or could it be that you're going through something at home or with your family into where you're just not in a good head space? And so that one complaint,

Robert Nordlund: 4:52

you know, the bandwidth for one more problem, right?

Melissa Ramsey: 4:56

You're You're so caught up in, you know what? It. Is that's making you feel bad, that anything else that comes on your plate just makes it that much bigger and brings those emotions tenfold. And so there might be something else that's, you know, driving that hurt, and it's not actually the association, but that's where you're seeing it. And so I think, for Denise, really looking at, you know, where's that hurt coming from, and trying to get to the root cause of that. If it is the association, then, you know, deciding, where are my boundaries, where do I need to say, No, is that worth having this much hurt to service the community? Or, you know, maybe I need to take a step back and just kind of refocus and re energize before coming back on the board. I think those are all questions that you just have to internally reflect on to make sure that you are content and happy and you're serving in a good space,

Robert Nordlund: 5:58

because if you're out of gas, you're not going to be serving the association. Well, absolutely, I've got two kids. They're grown, they're out and independent, but you have two small ones, right?

Melissa Ramsey: 6:08

Yes, okay, so, so 15 to nine and so there's a lot of emotions.

Robert Nordlund: 6:14

You're at work, yeah, when you have priorities, your family, your kids, are going to come first, and you need to say, okay, what are my priorities? And whoops, the board member is a volunteer position. Maybe I can defer some of that. So short term, is it okay for Denise? I think it was. Yes. Denise, can she just say, Hey, can I step away for a month or two, a short term thing like that. Take a breath. Do you see people doing that

Melissa Ramsey: 6:46

absolutely but I think even shorter term is just taking that pause, whether it's after a board meeting at the end of your day, to say, How am I doing? Where are my thoughts and my feelings coming from, and I've done a lot of talks on emotional intelligence in the last couple of years. And what I see a lot in our industry and within you know, the community management space, is that people don't know how to deal and cope with their emotions, and then you take their emotions and you add on other people's emotions, and everyone just isn't sure how to to handle that and to talk about it. So you first have to figure out, how do I cope? And then, in turn, you can help when other people are coming at you with their emotions. So I think, for for Denise, just to take a minute journal, you know, be grounded for a second and just figure out, why am I hurting? Let me fix that issue first. And that could be stepping away from the association. It could be, you know, going toward yoga retreat. I mean, there's so many different options, but I think if she just takes five to 10 minutes just to pause and reflect, that could lead to a lot of answers for her.

Robert Nordlund: 8:07

Yeah, just as you're talking about that, we have a deck out on our backyard, and it's there, it overlooks some beautiful scenery, and it's there and it's there and it's there. And if I can take 15 minutes just to sit on a chair out on the deck and get that 15 minutes, that's only 15 minutes out of a day. But if I can get that 15 minutes, I can check off that day as a good day, because I was out on our deck in the backyard, and it doesn't take a lot of time. And just what you're talking about with Denise, knowing what her happy place is, and I'm going to stereotype here, knowing my wife, if she can get a lunch or a coffee with one of her girlfriends, same kind of thing, that's an hour or so or two all of a sudden. That makes that a good day. Everything else is still on her plate. But if you can find the things that give you some pleasure or some peace, that's an anchor that allows you to then face the other battles in your life

Melissa Ramsey: 9:09

absolutely and all it takes is 10 to 15 minutes too.

Robert Nordlund: 9:13

Yeah, it doesn't have to be a big thing. It doesn't have to be I'm selling my house and moving to Tim book too, although sometimes you want to do that. Well, tell me about yourself. Your career path has taken some turns. First off, what got you into the community, association, industry?

Melissa Ramsey: 9:33

Funny story. So I usually I say that I started as a lifeguard and fell into this. I was on the private swim and tennis club side, and wanted a change of scenery after college. And went from Durham, North Carolina to Reno, Nevada, so east coast to west coast, complete change of scenery and the club that I. Went to was part of an association. So that was back in 2005 and so through the evolution of club operations, got involved, started asking questions, you know, trying to figure out, what do you mean? There's a board of directors, and, oh, by the way, that board is also the developer and declarant. So I kind of got thrown into all things with an association, but I found it intriguing, complicated. We exist exactly. I always tell my parents that I never wanted a desk job that was the same day after day after day. And in this industry, every day is different, like there's nothing that repeats itself, which I think is fascinating, if we enjoy those variances. But just worked my way up through that community and got into leadership with management companies, and then life took a crazy turn for me in 2023 and I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Oh, yikes. And in going through that, I had to self reflect a lot and wanting to be more present with my kids and just my own mental health. And so that's what led me to creating mosaic and being in a consulting space to do what I enjoy about this industry, but doing it on my schedule, and so it has been a crazy journey along the way.

Robert Nordlund: 11:38

Yeah, for everyone listening, mosaic is mosaic community consulting, and we'll have a link to that in the show notes, so you can follow up and see what Melissa is talking about. But I get that so you can now be a solution provider, helping people, fixing things,

Melissa Ramsey: 11:56

absolutely, taking the the years of operational experience and and being becoming fresh set eyes and looking at, you know, the alternatives in a proactive solution, where, when you are doing the hurt, frustration and all the emotions, sometimes you lose sight of what's in the best interest for the community.

Robert Nordlund: 12:21

Interesting. So personally, you were able to step back and from that body of experience, you're now able to help other board members, other associations, see things with perspective and get to a solution. You tempted me with this episode being about health and wellness, and now I have a better understanding about where that's coming from. That comes from your heart. Tell me what you how do you how do you measure that? How does someone, how does Denise know how she's doing, she says she's crying. How do you measure your well being, and know that you're you're getting to your saturation point. You need to take a break. You need to make a change.

Melissa Ramsey: 13:05

I think it's an evolution, and it's not, it's not the same for everybody. There's not the same measurable moments through, you know, life's turns of events. What might be a problem or a solution for your problem might alter along the way, and so what I have found is that just being true to who you are and being open to different opportunities and solutions, I started on this wellness journey after my daughter was born more from a physical place, and recognizing that you know sitting all the time is not good for you. And you start looking at our industry, and so many people in our industry sit all day, and you go to these conferences, and you recognize that you know you're sitting and then you're eating and drinking. And so it's not, you know, a very well balanced environment, but through that, then I, you know, had an opportunity to meet different people along that journey. Lex fire Hawk, out of Arizona, she's one who really introduced me to the mindfulness piece and breathing gave me anxiety for the longest time, and I was not a person who was open and interested to yoga. But when you have someone who just they're not forcing it on you, they're just engaging in a conversation, you're like, Okay, let me give that a try. And so, you know, you evolve into trying new things, and I think that's what's been so great, is that I'm open to that. I'm open to knowing if I'm not feeling good and making the adjustments till I feel better and right, so that way I can continue to show up in my authentic self.

Robert Nordlund: 14:55

I'm writing that one down. Know if you're not feeling good, and I. Make the adjustments,

Melissa Ramsey: 15:03

because so many people get caught up in it, and then you never correct the problem, and so you continue just to feel bad, and then everything just continues to pile up until you explode. And so often we talk about in our industry, burnout, whether it's community manager or a board member, even a business partner, if you're not taking the time to correct, you will reach the point of burnout. But if you give yourself, yourself the grace to say, I do need to go sit outside in the sunshine, or for me, take me to the beach a couple of times a year, put my feet in the sand, yep, like, you know, knowing what those moments are to where you can truly just let everything go. And you know, you just smile in those moments

Robert Nordlund: 15:54

and refuel, yes, and re Energize. What is it? Refresh, renew, restore. There's a lot of good R words. There's got to be one for B for beach, but that's on my wife's list too. But just Yeah, to know what is good for you and be able to take care of your own self. Okay, I want to turn the corner a little bit. Let's talk about the association. There are some toxic associations. There's some well running associations. I would imagine, from your point of view, you've seen some talk toxic associations that just are almost designed to burn people out. Can you give us some low hanging fruit of things? I don't believe, I don't believe it's the association. I believe it's the leadership. I believe it always comes back to people, right? Actually, okay, good. You're with me on that. Is there some low hanging fruit that can be done to start to turn the corner from it being a toxic situation that is just no fun to begin for it to be a well functioning association.

Melissa Ramsey: 17:04

So you know, when I talk about health and wellness of our industry, it goes so many different ways. You can look at the individual person, you can look at a board, and you can look at the community, and, you know, the connections with business partners, and so from a community perspective, a lot of times, people get caught up in, do I have money in the account is, you know, the common area? Well, maintained. That's just the surface level, like icing on the cake, if you will. You got to really dive into it and look at, you know, do we have a vision? And I feel like a lot of communities that have that conflict, there's no mission and vision that they're working towards. And so it's these personal agendas of the vocal minority that are driving action. And so having those communities Again, pause and go. What are we here for? What is our purpose? What are we trying to deliver to our owners and our neighbors and our friends and focus back on that? You know, Are we maintaining our common areas, if not? Why and having those conversations? I think we've gotten so far away from just talking to one another and treating people like good neighbors, and we're so quick to make assumptions and stick with Well, that's how we've always done it. That doesn't make it right. And so without looking at alternatives and looking at, okay, what is for the good of the community, you're going to continue to be stuck in that bad space. And even the grumpiest of board members, they have a passion. There's something that's driving them, and if you engage in the conversation to see what that is, a lot of times, you can turn that around and you can get them energized for the good instead of focusing on the bad.

Robert Nordlund: 19:07

Yeah, well, you said a couple of things I want to that are connecting dots for me. Earlier, you talked about different personalities and the toxic soup of one person wanting something, another person wanting another thing. And if you can have that aligning vision, that we are here at the Association for a, we are here at the Association for B, and or having policies, guiding policies, then you can have someone who is more conservative, more aggressive, risk averse, or whatever it is, but at least you're aligned with okay. For the association we exist to do this, and that can minimize the toxic soup on the side right and align people to Okay. What is the definition of good for this community? At Happy Valley villas, we are here to blank and you can. Different opinions. You can have different professional strengths, different skill sets that you bring to the table, different emotions that you bring to the table, but you're here for this at Happy Valley villas, and that can, I'm just realizing that that can put so many of these difficult issues off on the side, when you have something that,

Melissa Ramsey: 20:22

yep, it takes the emotions out of it. Even if there's conflict. You can say that per our mission or per our value, this is why we're looking at this topic. And you can focus on that from a neutral standpoint versus I disagree with you. You're wrong. Why would you say that? And like it becomes a personal attack, and that's when you see these toxic orgs and toxic communities, and it's like, no, let's just focus on the neutral piece of it, and let's not make it personal. Yeah,

Robert Nordlund: 20:56

well, Melissa, you just even saying that the personal attacks makes after this recording, I want to go out in my deck and sit in the chair for a while. You know? I can just feel that on the back of my neck, and I can begin to appreciate what Denise is feeling. That if she doesn't have a pressure release, this can just back up, and she can just feel it's a lot of work. I don't like these people. Joe was mean to me. Susie is mean to me. I don't even like myself anymore. Got to find a way to unwind that. And I like this idea of taking care of yourself, knowing when you may need to make an adjustment. And then such high value on having a guiding policy, a guiding Did you call it guiding vision for the association itself?

Melissa Ramsey: 21:46

Depending on the size of the association, I think you know it can vary. So, you know, a smaller community, they might just have a mission statement. That's all they need. There's they don't have a lot of amenities. Whereas you might get a larger community, lots of amenities, lot of lots of things that are going on, where they might have a mission and values, because their values, or some people you know, set them up as goals, address the different components of the association. So again, you're still able to refer back to Hey. Our goal for this year was, you know, to fix the playground, yeah. Are we doing that? Let's not argue about the color of it. Are we fixing it? You know, keep it that simple.

Robert Nordlund: 22:30

Okay, I like that because it's, I can see there's a difference between a little 12 unit condo on the beach that half the units are rented, compared to a big, age restricted community with two golf courses, three rec centers. What? 50 people on staff? That's a whole different situation. Well, let's take a quick break here. Now I'm looking at the clock. It's time to hear from one of our generous sponsors at your worth, after which, you think I could say this clearly, after all these times, after which, we'll be back with more common sense for common areas. With Melissa Ramsey,

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Robert Nordlund: 23:41

and we're back. Well, Melissa, let's get back to health and wellness. Where did that journey start for

Melissa Ramsey: 23:46

you? It's an interesting one.

Robert Nordlund: 23:49

I count on that we're recording this. I

Melissa Ramsey: 23:53

i had the journey that was happening for me, personally, internally, like I said, after my daughter was born, but from

Robert Nordlund: 24:01

a is that your oldest or your second

Melissa Ramsey: 24:03

my oldest? So probably 12 years ago is kind of when I started that journey, personally. But then during that time, I got actively involved with the Nevada chapter of Cai community associations, Institute

Robert Nordlund: 24:19

for people who don't know. Tell me a little bit more about Cai.

Melissa Ramsey: 24:23

Cai is an international organization that focuses on the Community Association, association housing model. It's interesting in that it's an organization that supports business partners, community managers and homeowner leaders, and so we bring together all of these different perspectives of individuals that work with community associations.

Robert Nordlund: 24:46

Okay, that's crazy in a sense. That's like the American Bar Association supporting lawyers and clients, or the American Medical Association supporting doctors and sick people,

Melissa Ramsey: 24:57

yep. So we're an interesting organ. Organization in that regard, yeah, but got actively involved at the local level, and had a couple of people at the chapter said, you know, you should get involved at national Sure. Why not? I have all the free time in the world. Let me volunteer. So I

Robert Nordlund: 25:17

all you do is answer emails 18 hours a day. So

Melissa Ramsey: 25:21

I self nominated for the managers council and was selected to join that, and I was chair elect. So I was selected as chair elect. So I joined in 2019 became chair elect in 2020 and then in 2021 was my year as chair that was the year that I decided for the managers council, I wanted to focus on the health and wellness of managers.

Robert Nordlund: 25:47

Okay, let me slow you down there, because 2020 was covid, which was tension. Just to start with 2021 we just crossed the four year anniversary of Chaplain tower south. So that was more tension. So, yeah, you're it's all around you,

Melissa Ramsey: 26:04

yes? And I thought, What a perfect time, because we aren't talking about it. All we talked about was burnout. You know, people are leaving, and it's like, let, well, let's give solutions to try and avoid that upfront. And so the council looked at ways to promote healthy living, what is a well balanced diet? What are mindfulness tools that managers could utilize? And what I truly loved through that year was the number of people who gravitated towards it, engaged in the conversation. Thought like, Absolutely, we should be talking about this. Well,

Robert Nordlund: 26:48

that's key, because you were saying that you need to know if you're not feeling good and make the adjustments. And it sounds like people were were following you and able willing to make the adjustments.

Melissa Ramsey: 27:01

And so through that, you know, CA, I kind of named me the wellness expert, wellness guru. And so being on the board of trustees, being selected as president elect. And so this year, in my term as President, I thought, well, I need to continue this health and wellness

Robert Nordlund: 27:21

journey pressing that button and pressing that button hard. Okay, good, but let

Melissa Ramsey: 27:25

me expand it. It's not I want to make it to where people are looking at all the different aspects of it, not just the community managers, okay, and being able to look at all of the different people involved with Cai to say, is this a healthy business partner relationship, you know, is this a healthy employment environment? Is this a healthy community, and what are the reasons for that? You know, is this a well funded reserve study, like all the different, of course, all of the different nuances to say, Are we healthy as a broader community, and that also led to, you know, as a board of trustees, to say, Are we healthy as an organization of Cai, we were faced with, you know, our CEO of 23 years retiring, and so it even became that much more critical for us to examine, okay, are we healthy? What does that look like for us? And so it just it timing. I feel like, you know the stars align to say this is a great talking point on so many different levels, to engage different people. And you know, you know, Bill Overton, yes, he's been a great champion of this topic as well. And looking at it from, you know, the mental mindset piece of it, too. And so having those conversations and having people share those stories, and so I couldn't be prouder. I love that so many people are open to the conversation, and it's not you know something that you have to keep secret. And I hope that as we continue through this year, and as more people start talking about the health and wellness of their communities and of the organization, the positive stories start coming out, and we start talking more about the good things that are happening, not just the bad.

Robert Nordlund: 29:30

Yeah. Well, you watch the news and it's, it's easy to get bad press for something or something else that just, yeah, I'm wringing my hands.

Melissa Ramsey: 29:39

But think about if you, if you pivoted that and you like, it's summer, right? Everyone, if you have a pool in your community, there's kids swimming, think about if everyone just took a minute and captured that kid smiling, you know, as they got out of the water, jumped into the pool for the first time, and what? Just satisfaction you get from just seeing a smile, seeing that happiness, to be reminded, hey, we're doing a good job. This isn't so bad, and I think that's where we all need to play our part and put those stories out there more and share that happiness that we know is there. It's just we don't talk about it. Can

Robert Nordlund: 30:25

I say spin the good? Yes, absolutely, that may make it into the show notes. Okay, all right. Well, we look around, there's always challenges, and so I'm glad that you're at the helm of Cai national health and wellness is something we all need, on a personal level, for the Association for the inner relationships, minimizing the toxic things that we're doing, the toxic, toxic situations we'll get ourselves into. So tell me, what are you going to what's your next challenge after Cai national president.

Melissa Ramsey: 31:03

Good question. I've been thinking about the beach. Yeah, no, I've had, actually quite a few people like start saying, you know, okay, what are you going to do next year when you kind of Sunset into things? I likely will probably get involved at some of the local level. I am in the Carolina region, so probably looking at ways I can get more involved at the North Carolina South Carolina chapter. I truly want to have an impact on this association industry. I think what we do is amazing. Yes, there are frustrations. Yes, there are bad days, but there's so much opportunity and there's so much happening that I just continue to find fascinating. And so I want to whatever time I decide, decide to retire, I want to look back and say I did something that truly influenced this industry, other people, and I left an impact. That's my goal.

Robert Nordlund: 32:07

I like that. Well, thank you, Melissa, you're the right person at the right time to have on this show. I think about the tension in this world. I think about the tension in the community, association, industry, the tension that we carry. And just your comments about being aware of what your situation is, know how you're feeling and make the adjustments I like that, and the association things like that that you're working with. And I hope Denise can find some comfort and find a way to get a little more peace in her life. And from a male point of view, I just hate it when a woman around me is crying. It just saddens my heart. So it's great talking with you. So glad that you've been the president of Cai, the Board of Trustees, and be able to have you on the program. Any closing thoughts to add at this time,

Melissa Ramsey: 32:58

you know, I encourage everyone you know, whether you're a board member, Community Manager or business partner, recognize the impact that you have within your community and feel good about it. Feel good about that positivity that you can influence, and just don't let the like I said, the vocal minority occupy too much of your time and energy.

Robert Nordlund: 33:24

Recognize your positive impact and feel good about it. You got to hold on to the good, and just like we talked about what's happening in the news, you got to let a lot of that go and hold on to the good, because maybe that's the adjustment we can make. Well, if you'd like to get in touch with Melissa. You can visit her company's website. It's Melissa. Melissa mosaic community consulting, which is mosaic dash, cc group.com, and of course, we hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. And let me add a little piece in your heart. We look forward to having you join us for another great episode next week.

Announcer: 34:07

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