Julie Adamen: 0:00

You can be friendly as well, but especially if you're maybe not all on the same page, still remember to act professionally and act professionally toward your homeowners at the same time. Communication is one of the number one things a board needs to do to gain Well, let me just bring it all down credibility. If your board exhibits integrity and credibility. You are on the right road, and you are probably doing a good job.

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Association Insights and Marketplace, Association Reserves, Community Financials, Kevin Davis Insurance Services, HOA Invest, and The Inspectors of Election . You'll find links to their websites and social media in the show notes.

Robert Nordlund: 0:41

Hi, I'm Robert Nordlund of association reserves,

Julie Adamen: 0:44

and I'm Julie ademan with Adamen Inc. And this is HOA Insights where we promote Common Sense

Robert Nordlund: 0:49

for Common Areas. Well, welcome to episode number 123, where we're again speaking with management consultant and regular co host, Julie ademan. Today, our focus is on the characteristics of great boards. There's a huge stereotype in the country that associations are trouble and that board members are evil. So it's going to take some time to turn the tide on that reputation, and it starts today. Julie is going to share some simple indicators and actions that actually may be followed after courage that are consistent among boards that function well and lead great associations. Last week's episode number 122 featured a great interview with Walter block of the Banc of California.

Julie Adamen: 1:33

Yes, everyone who's been around this business has heard of Walter block. I thought he'd retired by now, but good for him, or maybe not good for him.

Robert Nordlund: 1:42

He's a deep resource of stories and information. Anyway, Walter, with the banc of California, has some straight talk on getting a loan for your association. Walter has been working with associations on the lending side of the banking industry for longer than he would like to say, but it was so refreshing to speak to an expert on the subject who's seen it all? So if your association is facing a cash shortfall and looking for an alternative to a big special assessment, make sure you listen to episode 122, but if you missed that episode or any other prior episode, you can take a moment after today's program and listen from the podcast website, Hoa insights.org, or watch on our YouTube channel, but better yet, subscribe from any of the major podcast platforms so you don't miss any future episodes. Those of you watching on YouTube can see the HOA insights mugs that Julie and I both have, that we got from the merch store, which you can browse through from our Hoa insights.org website, or the link in the show notes. And first of all, you'll find we have some great free stuff there, like some board member zoom backgrounds, and then, of course, some specialty items for sale, like mugs. So go to the merch store, download a free zoom background, take a moment look around, find the mug you'd like, and email me at podcast, at reserves, a.com with your name, shipping address, mug choice and mentioning episode 123, mug giveaway, and if you're the 10th person to email me, I'll ship that mug to you free of charge. Well, we enjoy hearing from you responding to the issues you're facing at your association. So if you have a hot topic, a crazy story, or a question you'd like us to address. You can always contact us at 805-203-3130, or email us at podcast at reserves day.com Today's episode comes from an email from Betty from Pensacola, Florida, who asked or stated, We think we're doing a pretty good job. But how do we know what is a good board and what does it look like? So, Julie, I know you've written and presented on this topic many times. So many times. How do we respond to Betty?

Julie Adamen: 3:51

Well, Betty, the fact that you're asking that question probably means you're doing okay. If you can't quite understand if you think you're doing a good job, that is actually probably a good indicator you are either doing a good job or you're on the road. But you know, all boards have a tendency. Boards that are dysfunctional, let's start with them. Have a tendency to do certain amount of things that will sink a board. Add 234, of these dysfunctional type of behaviors they exhibit, or actually, many times it's just a lack of knowledge on what they should be doing. Let me

Robert Nordlund: 4:23

stop you episodes called Top traits of great boards, but I understand that just as there are top traits of great boards, there's also top traits of bad boards for bottom traits, yeah, bad boards, all right. So it's classic thing of do more of this and less of this, less of this, and keep doing more of the same good things.

Julie Adamen: 4:48

Okay, exactly. There's just a kind of a list of things we can go through. And I think for anyone who's on a board, you'll recognize some things that your board does and your board doesn't do. So first, let's talk about. Really basic things. I'm going to go to my first favorite topic, which is communication. Okay, so is your board communicating with each other and with the homeowners on a regular, courteous, professional basis, or is your board well, we don't need to send out a newsletter. We don't need to send out an e blast. Nothing's really going on, and you're kind of leaving an information vacuum, which Robert and I talked about this a whole bunch of times. But as I was telling Robert, I'm doing some consulting work with an association that has been court ordered to undergo governance training, and so it is trouble, and they've this particular board. They settled their suits in court against each other, continually, continually. It costs them a fortune personally. They have money gonna cost them a fortune personally. But of course, it also costs the association as well and all kinds of things. So courteous, professional relationships with other board members, you can be friendly as well, but especially if you're maybe not all on the same page, still remember to act professionally and act professionally toward your homeowners at the same time. So communication, and again, we've done this many, many times on communication is one of the number one things a board needs to do to gain. Well, let me just bring it all down credibility. So is it? Betty? Yes. Betty from Pensacola, if your board exhibits integrity and credibility, you are on the right road, and you are probably doing a good job. Because honestly, that's all we really have as board members. That's all we really have as human beings too. But as board members, if you don't have credibility because you're suing each other all the time, or you're not communicating, you're not doing the right things. You're doing the easy things, if you don't have credibility, that points to the fact that your integrity is probably kind of in tatters. So those are the two things you always want to point to with all of your actions as a board. So communication is always at the very top of that list, with each other and with the homeowners.

Robert Nordlund: 7:02

You said something right in there that I want to slow you down on, and just made me think that on a board member, you're not coming there as an all star. You're not in baseball terms. You're not an Aaron judge or a Shohei Ohtani in football terms. Who's the quarterbacks nowadays? Josh Allen for the bills and the guy for the Kansas City.

Julie Adamen: 7:26

Yeah, someone's gonna send us something in after Patrick mahomes, yeah, right, right. You're gonna get mail on that.

Robert Nordlund: 7:33

Yeah. Okay, you're, you're not an all star away from being a good board. You are. You can be a good board just because you're you, and just that whole idea of communicating, and you may think that it's going into a vacuum, but at least the homeowners are seeing that you're telling us, if I would care to read the email, I can learn they they get a good is it true that they get a Good feeling that the board is trying, even if the homeowner is not reading the stuff,

Julie Adamen: 8:05

enough homeowners will read that stuff. Enough will and and, and don't get discouraged, because it's the first rule of marketing is seven times the sun in front of someone and they see it. Doesn't mean they read it, but it means they see it. So as you keep sending it's just consistent communication to the owners. And that's obviously well thought out, and it doesn't have to be long. It just has to be open, right? It's just, you have to be it's transparency. You're just sending forth transparency so but it has to be that way among each other as well. One of the things that really good boards do is they speak with one voice. Now I can tell you that in associations, the one I'm going to be working with here shortly, as well as others that I have worked with over the years, every one of those boards has at least one board member, maybe more, that communicates outside of board meetings inappropriate items or simply derogatory items, and stir what I'm stirring up trouble. Everybody out there who's a parent raise their hand. Okay, you all know. Yeah, right. So you all know if you tell your kid no about something, they're going to run off to dad or run off to mom and and so. And what does that do? It's a child, obviously, but it means that the parents as a unit don't have a lot of credibility if they don't back each other up. It's the same thing with the board. Now, the first thing everyone says is, but I don't disagree with what's go I don't agree with what's going on, and I want people to know that that's okay if everyone is thinking the same way, no one's thinking, right? That's what's it? That's a patent quote, I think, or facsimile thereof. It doesn't mean you you can't disagree in the meeting. Vote, no, if you want to vote, no, that's okay. But if you are out voted, the thing to do is if you have homeowners or your own constituents in your part of the building or. Whatever it is, say, Well, I don't approve that. Did you vote for that? And you can say, well, I didn't, but the board has voted on it, and we're moving forward with it, and we're going to try to make the best of it. And that's the type of response not sending out an email to 150 people in font this big, in red, about how horrible, terrible, nasty the rest of the board members are. You may think you're making them look bad, but honestly, you look like you look worse. You're the troublemaker, you're the one talking out of school. You're the one trying to bully people from the outside. That may not be your intent, but that's how it comes across. So once the decision is made and you're out of the board meeting, even if you disagreed vehemently, you have to have a professional attitude about this. And I think, you know, Robert, this is always one of the toughest things about being a board member is because it's difficult to have that professional veneer. Because you live there, this is personal to you. If assessments are going up and you voted no, you still have to pay those assessments going up, or the special assessment, or whatever it is. Sometimes it's a tough ask, but as a board member, you really have to step back, put your business hat on, and then move forward that way, take the business hat off when you go home, but don't send an email out to half the homeowners complaining about how terrible everything else is. It makes the board look very weak. It makes the board very weak, and it also loses board integrity. Without the integrity, you have no credibility, and vice versa, when you when you really do want to get things done. So that's another one I find that happens all the time again.

Robert Nordlund: 11:34

Let me slow you down here. I'm busy writing notes because I try to take some highlights to put as a show notes. And I'm thinking that none of these are instant, but you can destroy an association pretty quickly. You could probably destroy an association faster than you can rebuild it. But the Fast Idea, idea of speaking with one voice, leads to integrity, leads to credibility, and when you're leading to those things, and all of a sudden you have more community spirit. They will believe your emails. They will open the emails. They will if you have a social event, they may come to the social event because it's a we type thing, and it starts. It's got to start, as you suggest, with the board. The board needs to be a we before they can open their arms and have the association as a whole via we do this, and the

Julie Adamen: 12:25

homeowners want to see you work as a unit. You have to work you're you're just like a unit in the army or the Marine Corps. I mean, you are a unit. You have to move together again. Doesn't mean you have to agree on everything, because you're never going to do that, but you have to move together when you show that kind of a united front to the homeowners. And I don't mean something's in front of you. I just made a united front. You're all kind of on the same page. Some may disagree, but we're moving forward, and we have a good attitude about it that permeates down, that percolates down to the homeowners. So and then back to Robert, your point of that it takes very little time to destroy an association. I think you and I can attest to that. Over the low these many I figured out it's 40 years. For me, 40 years in this business, I've been telling everyone it's 30 and that I had to

Robert Nordlund: 13:13

add it up. I'm like, Well, hey, we, we may edit that out. I don't think that's we want to have. We have enough experience. But yeah, there's like we're talking about with Walter, someone who had seen it for so many decades. Let me take you a little bit sideways. And I asked you right at the very beginning, the question about the chicken and the egg is, are some associations just plain bad associations and board members are saddled with just a sick dog or vice versa? Are some associations naturally good associations, and being a board member is a piece of cake. How much influence does a board have about changing the dynamic of the association, `

Julie Adamen: 14:05

a good board of people who work together and have that as their intent can change the flavor of an association over time. Associations have their own personality. You know, some are little, little yippee dogs. Others are pit bulls. Then you have the golden retrievers, which are the great ones. Yeah, you know, they're just like anything. They're just happy. I mean, so they all have their personality. But if your association is a pit bull, because they've been poorly managed by previous boards over a long period of time, that that battleship does not turn around quickly. But if you want to fix it, if your board as a unit wants to fix that, you can. I've seen it happen, but it's not instant. It is. What did you What did you tell me? Kathy said it was a big headed

Robert Nordlund: 14:52

persistence and determination. But I'm thinking it probably takes a year or two at least.

Julie Adamen: 14:59

Is that? Yes. Okay, and this is tough, because board members may float in and out during that time, so it makes it even more difficult. However, can it be done absolutely with just a few prescribed remedies that can make it work, communication and make sure you do everything that points to your board's integrity and credibility, so you communicate, and people believe you, and they believe you have their best interests at heart, not your own, not this little faction, but the entire community's best interests at heart that can percolate down to the owners. And then, of course, it leads right into things like, what type of service providers are you? Are you hiring? Are you hiring the cheapest person you can possibly get, and they do kind of a semi okay job, and the grass doesn't look as good as it could, or the trees aren't getting trim this year, or that kind of thing. And are you doing that because you're afraid to raise assessments, all right? Or you just don't want to face the homeowners on that or, let me put it this way, are you Slouching Towards mediocrity or are you heading towards, you know, a wonderful battle you're gonna win with the banners flying and the trumpets playing. It's metaphorical, yes, but it's true. And so many associations slouch to mediocrity as opposed to head to victory. They do because it is a slog, and I'm not going to say any different, but you can get there. In fact, this a couple of the articles that I've written that we're basing this podcast on, as well as another one or two coming down the road. You can go to my website and find those up there, and they're free. You can just download them right off there. So you know, a lot of information for boards, yeah, I'll try

Robert Nordlund: 16:41

to remember to put those links in the links in show notes, because that was you do have a lot of good stuff. Let me again, slow you down on one thing, because the show notes may be long on this episode, because it's a lot of good stuff. You talked about it, may be challenging, and let's take the hypothetical that it's a tougher Association. Things haven't been going well, and that may be the stereotype out there that we need to address. And you get a good board member or two who is up for the challenge. We talk about being courageous, we talk about caring, we talk about curious. We talk about communicating. Well, those kinds of things, if the board is changing, isn't that, again, one of the best reasons to have a guiding kind of mission statement that we are here at Happy Valley villas to data. So not governing document, legalese, but just something that guides the board to what we are trying to accomplish. Can that bridge solution ups and downs

Julie Adamen: 17:47

of Absolutely and it absolutely should. I mean, every single Association should have a vision statement and a mission statement. Now, I can hear the groans out there. Oh, we don't need to do that. We're just, you know, 40 units in Inglewood or wherever they are, doesn't matter. It's just where we shouldn't do that. But that's not true. You know why you have vision statements and mission statements? That's so the board has something they can always hold on to when making decisions. Is this decision coming before us? How does it fit within our vision? How does it fit within our mission? You have a platform for cohesive decision making. You're not married to those. Different boards can come in and change them a little bit. That's no problem is they're not in cement. Different boards may have a little different vision for it, and as time goes by, your association may end up needing different vision and mission statements. But I will tell you that the process of going through adopting vision and mission is probably the most rewarding process. I've gone through this with several boards, and I usually do the I do the consulting on that, so I get there and I facilitate. Thank you. I couldn't think of the word I facilitate those a lot, and get them going, and by the time they're all done through this process, number one, they know each other better, even if they've known each other a long time, but especially if they haven't, because somebody's new, or two people are new, but by the end of it, everybody is at least in the same church. They may not be in the same pew, but they're close, much closer than they were before, pointing in the same direction, too, pointing in the same direction. So we're going to do this, and it gives you that again. I said that platform for operations, for consistent operations, once you start with the vision and a mission. I mean, I should say you should do this every year, to go over your vision, go over your mission, right after the annual meeting, and talk about what your goals and objectives are going to be for the coming year. And when you have a set amount of goals, and I'm not saying don't do a huge amount, I do five and three are the top ones. If you get those three done in a decent amount of time, maybe you can focus focus on the fourth one as well, because then the board has a direction to go. We're not going to go off into the weeds. As many of you who sit on boards know, sometimes your meetings can kind of go sideways. You know, you're going along just fine. And all of a sudden, things blow up, and someone talks for 45 minutes about something staying on your goals of the year and your goals of the month, to get to those goals of the year kind of keeps your board members thinking in one direction, and it keeps the board meetings much more concise, much shorter. I mean, Robert, what's the longest board meeting you've ever sat in?

Robert Nordlund: 20:24

Actually, I don't sit in long board meetings because I'm the expert, and I asked to be first on the agenda because I'm expensive, and they, uh, allow me to do my pitch, and it's a half hour and I leave. But you've been on a board. I've been on a board. Oh, gee, can you remember back that far? Yeah, actually, the last board I was on was a church board, but similarities nonprofit and delicacy with issues about the pastor, the worship team, the bulletin, there's trivia, and you can I'm tensing up just thinking about it. And, you know, Julie, that's when I realized I can't be on the church board, because I get enough volunteer board tension in my profession. And I was, I was not good helping my church out. Yeah, it can be long, it can be it can go sideways when you are not focused on what are we trying to

Julie Adamen: 21:19

accomplish as a group, not what I'm trying to accomplish as a group. What we're trying to

Robert Nordlund: 21:24

accomplish this year. Let's get pet waste stations this year. Let's get ready for the asphalt project that will occur next year. Let's talk about changing one of the tennis courts to two pickleball ports next time we resurface the tennis courts, which is going to be in two or three years, you know, just have a plan and a vision for what does the future look like. And that can be so unifying.

Julie Adamen: 21:48

It can be incredibly unifying. Also, if the board executes on that type of thing, when you are at a board meeting, the homeowners that actually do come to your meetings, they see you working as a group. There don't see a lot of backbiting. They don't see people over talking their time, because the board as a group is focused on particular things that need to get done. It looks good. It looks professional. And do you know what that makes people want to serve on committees and maybe even on the board eventually, because people want to be a part of something positive. They do not want to be a part of something that is an absolute disaster, and board meetings that go on 456, hours. Oh, to answer my own question, I'll tell you the longest board meeting I was in was when I was a manager. Two days. Oh, yeah, adjourn, come back. Adjourn, come back. I was so stressed out by the time was over, I think I ended up I had to switch accounts with my boss because I couldn't deal with them anymore. It was so difficult,

Robert Nordlund: 22:41

I can only imagine. Yeah, that's a bad experience, but very bad. You touched on one thing that is just big time, when the board is starting to function effectively, that has a ripple effect for the other people, the homeowners. It has a ripple effect for committees that people might want to help. For future board members, and there's a community spirit. And someone might say, you know, our sign out front is outdated, and you may have driven by it every day for the last 11 years. And you go out there after the meeting, you say, by golly, our sign is outdated, and you'll have people able to make a good suggestion. And you say, I welcome that. And this is a friendly association where you're going from step one to step two to step three, progress. And I just love seeing an associate association where the chemistry is that healthy, and

Julie Adamen: 23:32

it can be and you can make it healthy, even though you start out at one end, but you can, over time, make your association healthy. I think you're gonna go for commercial break, right?

Robert Nordlund: 23:41

I look at the time we should have gone for a commercial break a while ago. So let's do that. Take a quick break to hear from one of our general sponsors, after which we'll be back with more common sense for common areas, talking about top traits of great boards.

Kevin Davis: 23:54

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Robert Nordlund: 24:22

and we're back. Well, Julie, we got so distracted on talking about good stuff that we were blowing right through the agenda. So we took a moment to kind of regroup. Okay, so you want to help your association? What does that begin to look like for board meetings? How do you start to have effective board meetings.

Julie Adamen: 24:42

Number one, come prepared. If you have a let's just say you have a management company and you are provided a board packet of information for your meeting, hopefully three days in advance. Read those materials. Do not walk in, open your laptop and. Start reading them at that time. Yeah, fumbling. It takes forever. You're trying to catch up. You need to come to the board meeting prepared and prepared to do what make decisions, not waffle on it. Not I mean, if you have to ask questions, clarifying questions. Do that make them concise? If you've read your material ahead of time, you wrote down what your questions are, and it makes the meetings go much, much better. Any board I'm talking including large scale, large scale places at 236, 7000, units, you can make board meetings that are two hours or less. It just depends on how you structure it and how, how well prepared the board members are. Okay? Now, if you don't have a management company, I would say someone is probably putting together an agenda, whether it's the Secretary the board president, but know what's coming up. And if you have questions ahead of time, call the board president or call the Secretary and ask them about what's going on there. So if you come prepared for the meeting, the meeting becomes more productive, right? And back to the fact that if people are coming to your meetings and you're highly unproductive and it takes three hours and you don't really make a decision, number one, you look terribly foolish. Number two, you lose credibility. Okay? And most of those can be wholly avoided by coming prepared. Be ready to make decisions. Be ready to make decisions. That's your job as a trustee.

Robert Nordlund: 26:20

And then part of that coming prepared is knowing the financials. Are we doing okay? Are the numbers going up? Are the numbers going down? And it honestly may be that simple, where you may say, you ask the treasurer, I thought we were on an upswing, and the treasurer may say, Oh, we just had an insurance premium payment. You're right down a little bit. My bank balance is much lower than last month. Good for noticing. And it's those kinds of things that all we're looking for is understanding. We're not looking for expertise or so you know what the pulse is of this, just like you and I, there's going to be some days where we're tired, some days where we're energetic, but you need to know what is going on with the Association, and so know that financial status come prepared, be reminded of, Oh gee, if you come prepared, that means in three days, or whenever you realize, Oh gee, I was supposed to find out the new email address for the landscaper, and that gives you two days to get the new email address for the landscaper.

Unknown: 27:21

Don't I forgot to do that.

Robert Nordlund: 27:23

Get that done so you have blown a whole month of, oh, gee, you're right. I forgot, yeah, exactly.

Julie Adamen: 27:30

If you are self managed, I encourage every board member to take there. Now someone should be taking minutes. That should be your secretary, but to take your own notes, because I can just tell you, in this business, in the management end of it, we absolutely live by lists, lists, list, lists, lists, whether it's on your phone or a piece of paper. I mean, there's a lot of people that still kick it old school with piece of paper, I find writing things out by hand makes me remember things, but keep your own action list. Yes.

Robert Nordlund: 27:58

Yeah, same here. I am a little bit of a kinetic learner. When I write it, it tends to go into my brain more than when I close my eyes and listen. Talking about lists. Talk to me about what's next, what's next, what's next. We talked about getting the email address of the landscaper. Why? Because don't we need to rely on advice from those people. Should we plant this. Should we do this? How do we pursue delinquencies in unit number 13,

Julie Adamen: 28:26

all experts, experts, experts. So great boards utilize their experts. And of course, who are your experts? Well, basically, most of your vendors are expert in their field. So your landscaper is typically an expert in what was going to work there, what not going to work there, and what things are going to cost. Don't be afraid to call your insurance agent and ask them questions. I mean, obviously insurance is a big deal with all associations right now, and you would be surprised at how much information you can glean from your agent. And they'll they're happy to talk to you, totally happy you have a management company. They are experts in getting things done for you, but they're not experts in all these little disciplines. They can get a hold of the right person, and they'll bring them to a meeting your legal counsel. Many associations, especially larger ones, have someone on retainer, but almost everyone has at least someone they use for something. If you need to bring in legal counsel and have them advise you on whatever that is, whether it's delinquencies or, you know, finding issues or something. I know in California, you guys just had a big thing that went through on finding, right? Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I Yeah. I was shocked. I was shocked at that so ever, just so people know, in the state of California, this kind of got stuck into another bill about housing affordability, and it kind of went in under the radar, went into effect almost immediately, like 10 days later, a week later, like that, there could be no fines over $100 which means you really have next to no enforcement on anything in the state of California. So I think they'll end up getting that fixed, but it's going to take months. So. For the next legislative session? Yeah, maybe next year, maybe your experts are at your fingertips if you, you know, if you need, let's say you have a big roofing project coming up, and you're like, Well, we're gonna need to hire a roofing company. You know, there are guys who are roofing experts, and that's what they come out and do. They will evaluate the roofing system. It's not free people, but they'll evaluate the system. You have a disinterested third party, and then he's going to write up the specs, the RFP request for proposal for you, and you're going to send that out to various roofing companies, and then they're going to come back. You relied on an expert. And there's another thing. This is a so in the HOA world, boards can rely on experts, because you do not have the expertise. And what is that? Robert the business judgment

Robert Nordlund: 30:44

rule, Yep, yeah, that's what protects you in case anyone ever challenges your decision. But I want to talk about this. Usually a very sensitive thing is budget. And there's going to be people who say, well, we can't call our attorney, because they'll charge us an hour. But I got to tell you, and I think Julie and I are unified on this front, that that is some of the money, best money well spent is knowing what the right thing to do is because the wrong thing is really tough. As a board member, you're an average person, you're coming together with other homeowners to help run the Association. We're talking about techniques. We're not talking about fundamental skills. We're talking about working together as a board. And that means you're not going to be a roofing expert. You're not going to be an asphalt expert. And getting someone on your team, the construction consultant, that may take 5% or 10% or whatever their number is, they're going to make the project run smoothly, because you don't want the burden of a $250,000 roof project on your shoulders. You don't know what's going on. You're not inspecting, but someone else outside can get it right. And that's again, some of the best money you can spend. And it comes back to your council. Rely on your experts, and that also means not always taking the lowest bid, because if you get knuckleheads, yeah, they're just gonna create spin off problems for

Julie Adamen: 32:06

the board. Typically, yes, that's it. I mean, it's and actually that goes to everything. Don't be penny wise and dollar foolish as board members. For those of you who've been on boards for quite a while, you do understand this is that you know you're not there to keep assessments low, artificially low. I mean, you know how much your insurance has gone up? You know how much goods and services have gone up depending on what state you're in? You know how much your labor costs? California, perfect example, high labor but if you go to any of those types of Illinois has very high labor costs. New York has high labor costs. Massachusetts, highs. You know? Yeah, I could just go on and on those people who do shoot you cannot. You cannot fake your way through that and say, I can find someone who's going to work for half price. You probably can. Don't do it, because the ramifications of that will be felt and the reverberations felt for years, and you may never gain your credibility back after that type of thing. So the money, it's absolutely money well spent. If the lawyer needs to come to the board meeting for an hour, whatever that person charges, pay it, it's next to nothing compared to the heartache you could have for making a bad decision based on the fact that y'all thought this is what you should do, but you did not seek advice of

Robert Nordlund: 33:19

counsel. The choices you make create the future your association a little bit. I like that. Robert, to me, it's like playing golf. If you have a good drive, you want to follow it up with a good approach shot. You want to follow it up with a good first putt. Life is so much easier. Golf is so much easier when you're in the fairway and you're on the green, and if you're in the woods, all of a sudden, life is tough.

Julie Adamen: 33:41

So really tough. It's it's another thing i that i would tell boards, and either I know Sure, we're running out of time here, but when you're in a board meeting, stay out of the weeds. Stay on the agenda. Stay on the agenda. Don't go off and be a philosopher. Well, you know, back in the day when I was in condominium development, which means you basically cares, no one cares, and you probably just drove by a condominium, or maybe you were in the workforce a long time ago. Now I'm not, I get this, there's a lot of retired people on boards because you have the time. So, yeah, that's why I sit on a board myself so but, and I don't really have the time, but I squeeze it in. But anyway, if you were an expert 25 years ago in your field, please understand you may still have some expertise, but you may not be quite up to date on this stuff. If you're an attorney and you're advising your own board on stuff that you know you do wills and trusts, you don't know anything about HOA. You may have some idea, but you don't really know. That's no bueno for you. Do not do that. That is and the rest of the board should not allow that to happen. Appreciate your input, Bob, but we really should get someone whose expertise is in this. Yeah, I

Robert Nordlund: 34:49

have a phone call to return tomorrow from someone who sent me an email says I've been an attorney for 30 years, and there's something I need to talk to you about. I have a feeling that it's. Going to be someone who's was an attorney for 30 years, and they don't know anything about reserve studies. So great guy may be very knowledgeable, but not what we need at this time. At least he asked you. At least he asked

Julie Adamen: 35:14

Yeah, and I appreciate that, and I'm going to give him a call back and we'll have a good chat. And the truth is, we don't know what we don't know. That's I said, we don't know. We don't know. Use your experts. Okay, I know we're getting ready to go now. Yeah, well,

Robert Nordlund: 35:25

we built an agenda here today that we joked could be a four part mini series, and I have every expectation we'll continue down this path in future episodes, because, indeed, we want to help board members move their association from step one to step two to step three, to more effective associations, to more pleasant and polite associations, to more well functioning associations. So we will have more of this. But Julie looking at the time, yes, it's time to wrap this one up. Any closing thoughts to add that, to wrap up with a bow?

Julie Adamen: 35:57

Well, I just want to say to all you board members out there, are people who are thinking of getting on the board. Number one, thank you. But number two, do it. It can be highly rewarding, and you can actually make a massive difference in the life of the people who live in your community, just by your volunteering with a clear head and an open heart, or open Yeah, clear head and an open heart, if you have those two things and move forward professionally. You can do it. You can do it.

Robert Nordlund: 36:25

I'm writing that down. Have a clear head and open heart. We hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that I hope you weren't overwhelmed, but we got lots of lots of good stuff here that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. Thank you for joining us. We look forward to bringing many more episodes to you, week after week after week, we'll be here, and it'll be great to have you join us on a regular basis. Spread the word. Thank you very much.

Announcer: 36:54

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