Candice Scanlon: 0:00

Well, I'm a little different than the rest of the people on the board. I was trained to always dig for the details, and I was also taught that you don't ask a question until you've looked for the answer yourself. So that's what I do with issues that come to the board. I try to get educated enough to at least ask good questions of our experts and to know what I'm talking about so that I can make an informed decision.

Announcer: 0:31

A regular highlight of the HOA insights podcast is our board heroes feature, where we dedicate one episode each month to celebrate the remarkable efforts of HOA board members to us, a board hero is one of the 2 million elected volunteers who deserve recognition for excelling in a role that often goes unnoticed. Today, we're excited to spotlight one of these exceptional board heroes and share their inspiring story. If you match our definition of a board hero or know someone who does, please reach out to us. Our contact details and those of our sponsors are provided in the show notes.

Robert Nordlund: 1:01

Welcome back to HOA Insights: Common Sense for Common Areas. I'm Robert Nordlund, and I'm here today for episode number 143, with another one of the board heroes. We're proud to celebrate. I read a column from this board member, Candice Scanlon, in the November, December issue of CAI is common ground magazine. I liked it. Was able to get in touch with her, and we're fortunate to have her here on the program today. Her column in common ground was titled The value of a CAI education. But in chatting with her before the episode, I found out that Candace has so much more to share about what an educated and active board member can do for their association, and I should say the value that they add to their association. So today we have with us Candace Scanlon, a board member of her 132 unit condominium association in Southern California. It was built in 1977 Candace has lived there since 1989 so that's been her home for a while. But before I get to Candace, I hope you enjoyed last week's episode number 142, with my regular co hosts, Kevin Davis and Julie admin, on the top trends, you need to be prepared to face here in 2026 we want you to be prepared to face them successfully. If you missed that episode or any other prior episode, you can find them on our podcast website, Hoa insights.org, on your favorite podcast platform, or our YouTube channel. But better yet, subscribe to the podcast in order to get every episode delivered right to your phone or mobile device. Almost half of our audience stumbles onto this podcast based on a search that they did. But subscribing not only gives you regular reminders when we drop a newly weekly episode and the topic of that episode, more subscribers increases our ranking and podcast search engines, and that helps us encourage and equip more and more board members and associations all across the country, and that's what we're trying to do here. Those of you watching on YouTube can see the mug I have here on my desk. HOA insights mug that's about deferred maintenance, one of my favorite topics. That's one of your favorite topics. Yes, definitely, absolutely. So you can browse through and see what we have on from the link to our merch store on our Hoa insights.org website, or today's show notes, you'll find we have plenty of free items there, like board member zoom backgrounds and some specialty items for sale, like the mug. So take a moment after the show see what we have for you in the merch store, and at least pick up one of our free items before your next board meeting. Well, we enjoy hearing from you, and most episodes are in response to a topic you've recommended. So do stay in contact, letting us know what questions you have, what topics that you'd like to hear us address. And so to do that, leave us a voicemail at 805-203-3130, leave a comment on one of the YouTube videos you watch or send us an email at podcast at Hoa insights.org, back to today's episode, Candace. Let's start with what got you onto the board at your association in the first place. Why did you decide to run well,

Candice Scanlon: 4:19

a neighbor of mine and myself were discussing the fact that our Association did not have earthquake insurance, and both of us felt that that would left an open area that wouldn't be covered when the next big quake came and whatever damage we had, and we wanted To be sure our association actually survived, so we wrote up a petition asking the Board to add homeowners or Quake insurance, and we walked around and knocked on doors and the petition asked the board to add quake insurance. We got a 60% positive response to that of. Um, petition, and the board couldn't ignore it, so they ended up getting earthquake insurance, and we've had it ever since, thank goodness, okay, which inspired my neighbor and I to run for the board.

Robert Nordlund: 5:14

Yeah, if you're doing all this work to encourage the board to do the right thing, why not be the board?

Candice Scanlon: 5:19

Yes, well, there, we knew there would be other topics that came up so that we wanted to register our opinions on. And the only way to really do that effectively is to be on the board.

Robert Nordlund: 5:30

Well, fantastic. So did you both run and both get elected? Yes, we did good for you. Well, I just want to remind our audience, Candace is from Southern California, so that indeed is earthquake country, and I my worldview is preparing reserve studies. And that's the partnership between the board's responsibility to maintain the association and the homeowner's responsibility to pay the monthly assessments. And here you are saying you're raising your hand and saying, We are willing to pay more. Please get this insurance and protect us, and it feels like you're handing the board a good decision on silver platter. Yes, cool. Okay. Well, tell me what particular skills or point of view, what did you bring to the table as a new board member?

Candice Scanlon: 6:19

Well, I'm a little different than the rest of the people on the board. I was trained to always dig for the details, because I'm a scientist, and I sold robotic chemistry equipment, and there were a lot of details to it. And I was also taught that you don't ask a question until you've looked for the answer yourself. So that's what I do with issues that come to the board. I try to get educated enough to at least ask good questions of our experts and to to know what I'm talking about so that I can make an informed decision. You know, the problem is, if you get two or three bids from experts and they differ in what they are telling you, you have to have some way to figure out who is giving you the best advice, right?

Robert Nordlund: 7:11

Why are they different? And that comes with knowledge. There you go. I like that. So you come from it from Gee, I don't know if that's right brain or left brain, but an analytical point of view, and I'm an engineer, and so I think, I think you could Yes, probably like you do you want to know what the answers are, and to get the right answer, you have to be asking the right question. And so that requires you to know what's going on. I think there are so many board members that are just daunted or overwhelmed by what they feel like they're supposed to do, but I want to bring out what you said that you researched things, you looked into what it is, because when you're using experts, they do all the hard work, but you need to know what questions to ask of The experts, because I'm not a painter, you're not a landscaper. I don't do foreclosures. You have experts to do all these other things, and having the right package of experts serving your association just makes a night and day difference, I would imagine. Is that your experience?

Candice Scanlon: 8:17

Well, I can give you a recent example. Our we had paved, repaved our streets. We have six streets in our association, maybe six years ago, and they have cracks, and so that we were trying to figure out, what do we do? Do we fill the cracks and put a slurry coat? Do we repave what's the best approach?

Robert Nordlund: 8:38

So you're a robotics equipment salesman, what do you know about asphalt?

Candice Scanlon: 8:43

Nothing, yeah, nothing. I know a lot now. Now you do yeah? Good, yeah. The problem was the experts all gave different advice. And so I started digging into it. The biggest thing that the board was angry at the company that did the paving because it cracked? Well, it come to find out, when you do a little research, that's just part of the animal. That's just the way

Robert Nordlund: 9:07

it happens. Southern California, sunshine, the

Candice Scanlon: 9:11

water from rain, gets in the cracks. It goes to your base, and it causes more cracking. So what do you do to you know, make it last as long as you can. And there was a training at CAI by an expert on paving who now acts as a an authority for homeowners that want advice on it. He doesn't do paving anymore, and the stuff I heard him say was reflected in all the research I had looked at, so I knew he was telling me what the right answers. So the board hasn't the board decided not to do anything because they were getting different answers from different places, and now I'm afraid the paving is damaged enough that it's going to cost us a lot more. We'll have to repave instead of just slurry coat.

Robert Nordlund: 9:58

So you've run into what we call. Deferred maintenance, the board's attempt to save money is actually going to cost them more money.

Candice Scanlon: 10:05

They didn't know how to make the decision because they didn't like you said, know enough about paving. And everyone was telling them different things. So what do you do when you don't know? You stay with what you have. You don't make a decision.

Robert Nordlund: 10:17

Yeah, that's unfortunate, and you have to be careful about who you're asking the questions of I've been told many times that don't ask a barber if you need a haircut, because his answer is going to be Yeah, sure you need a haircut. I have I know people who own asphalt resurfacing companies, and I know people who own asphalt, seal coat companies, and yeah, can give very different answers to the same problem at the association. And so I'm glad that you're leading the charge there on getting an expert who is just there to provide wise counsel, and he's not hoping to win the work proposal.

Candice Scanlon: 11:00

Well, he's just another voice that has a different answer to the board, so it's hard to get them to listen to him and give him a priority. No one else on our board does any training.

Robert Nordlund: 11:10

Let's talk about that. How many people on your board supposed

Candice Scanlon: 11:13

to be five. We have an open seat. We weren't able to find anyone to fill the open seat. I've got to start walking around. Our election will be coming up at the beginning of the year, and I always walk and knock on doors and try and find people who will be on the board.

Robert Nordlund: 11:26

Yeah, we had an episode recently on recruiting new board members. I think it might have been 137 and that's an important task to keep that pipeline full of people, fresh skills, fresh voices. Okay, so you're at four people total out of five, and it sounds like you are the the learner, the can I say, progressive one, wanting to get things done. So how do you deal with and I want to say normal, because so many of our audience members are thinking, yeah, board friction is normal. How do you deal with board friction?

Candice Scanlon: 12:06

I try to avoid it as much as possible. Okay, I pick my battles, because it tends to escalate once you start getting friction. So I put things on the agenda that I want talked about, but I let the board start the discussion, and if I find they're going in the direction I want them to, I keep my mouth shut and let them take the ball, let that train leave the station. Yes, I'm getting what I want. I'm going to let them talk about it. They'll think it is, you know, their idea they're going but if, for instance, the electrical panels was an urgent matter to get fixed replace all of them so that our insurance wouldn't double or triple. Yikes, double or triple. Yes. Happened to many, many of us on our associations. And how do you afford that? Yeah, they dug their heels in. They didn't want to do it. They didn't believe the news reports that the panels were dangerous, and it took me almost eight months to keep gently pushing them every meeting to replace the panels. But then, when we started looking for someone to do it, they wanted the cheapest person, but we needed it done, right? CAI had an excellent electrician, and he had been in business for quite a while. The other bids they had were companies who were two or three years old and they didn't have enough staff to do the kind of tracking that needs to be done with the panel replacements and working with Southern California, Edison and I knew those things slowly, I got the board to to agree to it, and that's the way I approach everything. Is if I have to go slowly, then I have to go slowly.

Robert Nordlund: 13:54

My brain is spinning here. Your association built in 1977 so we're approaching 50 years, if I do my math, right? Okay, and I'm thinking our country was founded with slave labor, and it took a lot of time for us to work through that and get to a country where that was inappropriate. Same with England. I think there is a story. I hope my listeners will correct me. I think it was William Wilberforce, who was a member of parliament in England, and he spent decades fighting against slavery in the United Kingdom or the British Empire. I guess it was at that time. And some things just plain take time. Yes, unfortunately. Okay, so let's add to your skills, background as a scientist and a learner, someone who's curious, you have, what do we say? Tenacity or persistence?

Candice Scanlon: 14:50

Oh, like a dog with a bone. Oh, that's the way my daughter describes me. I'll call it

Robert Nordlund: 14:57

tenacity and persistence. I don't want to call you a dog. Hoa, okay, well, I'm enjoying this. Take me down that path about the electrical panels. So how did you actually learn about this? Did you hear about it from the insurance company that said, unless you do something about this, we're going to raise your premiums.

Candice Scanlon: 15:17

That's a good point. We had that this training. I go to luncheons every month because there's a training with it, and they have one your local church, okay, that's right. And they had some attorneys who were telling us and insurance guys about the panels, and the attorney said, I have an association right now who had the old panels, and they had a repair that needed done to a house, and a handyman came. He He shut off the circuit breakers, thought they were off and didn't test them, and he was electrocuted, which really played havoc with me being able to sleep after that, because our panel, he said the panels were so dangerous they had caused a lot of home fires and deaths. Okay? And you know that could happen any, any night you go to bed, yeah, the other, the other thing was, you had to the insurance companies were refusing to renew policies that had those panels. And I got a call from our insurance agent who said, I know you have one of those panels. I am not going to tell the underwriters unless they ask me we had the time between then and the next renewal of our insurance to get them changed, and that was less than a year is about 10 months, even if we're in progress and the are we renewed in June. So even if we hadn't quite completed it, I was pretty sure we could convince the underwriters. It was just a matter of time, right? It was in process, right? So I learned about both risks, the fire and and the insurance at that training.

Robert Nordlund: 17:04

Can you give us some orders of magnitude comparison of the cost to replace those electrical panels compared to your annual insurance premium? Do you know those numbers off the top of your

Candice Scanlon: 17:15

head, the the replacement the project cost us almost half a million dollars with 132 homes. So we had to replace the panel and pull the permits, which took time, and we had to pass the inspections for Southern California Edison. And then Edison said, Oh, the cabinets that the panels are in also had to be modified, and we had done a special assessment already on the panels. So the modification we had to find money for that, it would have doubled or tripled our insurance. And I don't remember what we're paying. It's pretty high number, but we have excellent insurance,

Robert Nordlund: 17:56

yeah, but I would have figured that would be a 234, year payback, a pretty, pretty wise payback to get the project done, just on a dollars and cents term. And we're not even talking about not being able to sleep at night because it's a fire risk. Yeah.

Candice Scanlon: 18:13

I mean, what if we had electrocuted a handyman and we had a lawsuit on that? Yeah, that also affects your insurance,

Robert Nordlund: 18:21

yeah, and what if you had a fire after you learned about the risk and before you got anything done about it, knowing

Candice Scanlon: 18:30

that we had the risk, so we, we got stickers, large stickers that said, do not do electrical work unless, unless you have double checked that the circuits are actually off and we stuck them to all the panels,

Robert Nordlund: 18:49

so at least put some warnings up

Candice Scanlon: 18:51

right, because we knew about it now and then, if there's a sticker there and someone still gets hurt, We might have protected ourselves.

Robert Nordlund: 19:00

Thinking over at Champlain towers, south in Florida, they got an engineering report in 2018 that told them they had a whole lot of trouble at the association. Yes, they got a reserve study in 2020 and then covid hit, and that shut them down. And it was hard for them to get contractor proposals, it was hard for them to get a bank loan. And we all know the end of that story was in June of 2021 16 months after that reserve study, they fell and killed 98 people, and that's not what you want to be known for. As a board member. Being a part of something like that

Candice Scanlon: 19:36

scared me about these electrical panels, and there are a lot of people who don't know, still don't know if they hadn't been in that training. If I hadn't been in that training, I never would have known. Yeah, we'd have still had the old panels unless the insurance company came out.

Robert Nordlund: 19:51

Yeah, and fortunately, you had that combination of the CAI talk that you went to, and it was just, it wasn't particularly so. Something of your interest. It was your pattern to go to these monthly luncheon meetings and learn and learn and learn, and a combination of that and your insurance agent talking to you. That was a great combination. That was a one two punch. Yes, it was, well, everyone I'm looking at the clock here, if you're watching on YouTube, I've been with my arms crossed and a little bit nervous about all these stories that Candace is telling, but we have some more stories to come, and so we're going to take a quick break now to hear from one of our generous sponsors, after which we'll hear from Candace again, some more projects that they've done at their association.

Paige Daniels: 20:37

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Robert Nordlund: 21:08

and we're back. Well, Candace, I have to admit, you telling me that your fire panels are not fire panels. The electrical panel replacement project cost better part of a half million dollars, $500,000 I didn't get my calculator out, but that's a big expense. How do you and the other board members go about pitching that to each other and to the association members?

Candice Scanlon: 21:35

That's a tricky subject.

Robert Nordlund: 21:36

Yeah, that's a lot of money.

Candice Scanlon: 21:42

Yes, it is, and it was almost $5,000 for each homeowner. We have a lot of them that are elderly, and some that are out of work and are trying to keep their homes, and that was a worry for me too. I thought the association could have done a better job in helping those people. I didn't tell them. The insurance man had called me, but I did say that the insurance, if they found out or asked about it, that ours would double or triple. And I think that was something that got to them, because they know we have to have insurance. It's not a maintenance issue that you can put off. You have to have it every year. So I approached it that way, and then I told them about the electrocution. They wanted to only put stickers on. I let it go at that, but I never give up when it's a big subject, it's on every agenda. Thank goodness I can put things on the agenda. They haven't blocked that. And unfortunately, we don't have any homeowners that come to our meetings in years, so they don't know anything that's going on. And an attorney gave the association advice that we should put as little as possible in the minutes, so even if the homeowners read the minutes, they know nothing about what's going on. Okay? The board finally decided to do a special assessment, and they decided that they would make the homeowners pay it back within six months. That was a plan to get everybody upset, because we don't communicate with homeowners. So they sent them this a notice of the special assessment and how much they would have to pay every month. And the homeowners woke up, they thought we had, we had gone out and gotten a an electrician that would give us a kick, a kickback to the board. We were accused of using people that we knew, or relatives that, I mean, they were just, you know, when you're making guesses about what went on your your brain doesn't really think they did a good job. They think you did a bad job. You go to the worst. Yes. So we did a Zoom meeting with a lot of people there then, and the board explained what the process was in finding an electrician and why we chose them. And they also offered to let the homeowners pay over one year instead of six months. That should have been the starting point.

Robert Nordlund: 24:13

Actually, I wonder about that, because it seems like you got the homeowners attention, yet they became involved in the decision point by asking, can we extend it to a year and you were able to work with them? And that could be the beginning of engaging the owners in the process of building community.

Candice Scanlon: 24:33

The owners don't know how to let the board know what they're thinking. I mean, you get a couple minutes at the board meeting if they attended, but that's really board business. If you had a homeowner who both parents had lost their job, and I know of one that was like that, we could have worked on a on a payment plan with them, but the board would not tell the homeowners that was available, because they were afraid that every. Everyone would want a special payment plan. So this family never learned about it. They never thought to say, oh, you know, I can't do one year. We're both out of work. We'd like a better payment plan. I don't know how to bridge that problem. That's a hard one. Yeah, because I can't, as a board member, go out and tell that homeowner, you know, if you need a special payment plan, you should talk to the board.

Robert Nordlund: 25:29

Yeah, because, again, you don't want everyone having special consideration. Well, one of the things you talked to me in the break was about not characterizing things as an expense or a cost, but you mentioned the value of the homes there. It's Southern California Community Association. I imagine it's a nice place. So is that something you can characterize and as an investment in the carrier property, an investment to keep you safe things like that?

Candice Scanlon: 25:56

Yes, you know, there's a lot of different types of investments. I mentioned the streets, and we're doing painting right now, and you know all the different upkeeps that you need. If the board would stop thinking of them as expenses and think of them as investments, particularly for the future condition or future risks, they would feel a lot better that and if they explained it to homeowners that way, if they would do a letter homeowners, we could start to shift into that perspective. Also. We can give them examples of other associations that didn't do the investment. And you know, you can do short stories like in our magazines, and we would get a lot of the homeowners educated, but they're afraid that that will open up them to a liability if they give any information to the homeowners, so they make an effort not to put anything in the minutes or to send out a letter.

Robert Nordlund: 27:01

Interesting, I guess I'm the host here, so I can say my opinion, but I'm of the opinion that an absence of information, a vacuum, allows a lot of bad things to happen, a lot of bad speculation. Worse bad speculation. Being proactive, being transparent. Maybe the homeowners can ignore it, but at least you're saying, Okay, this is what's going on at our association. It's our association. This is what we need to do to take care of it, things like that. Talking about expense, you turn me on to a free tool. Southern California is not only earthquake country, it's also a wildfire country. Tell me about this free tool that you found out about that helps homeowners inventory their home assets. Well, it

Candice Scanlon: 27:43

was a case of serendipity. I was I had the TV on in the morning when I got up, and I don't listen to the news much anymore, but the news happened to be on and they talked about this new program called bevel, B, E, V, E, L, that is an AI based product that you can take your photographs, or even your movies, of your home interior, and instead of you making lists of them, this product will look at the pictures, pull out what each item is in the picture, give it a value. Give you a final spreadsheet. If you open your drawers, it'll detail everything that's in there, and it

Robert Nordlund: 28:27

I'm thinking of my sock drawer, going from top down, yes, and underwear and shirts and your

Candice Scanlon: 28:32

garage, how much is in your garage. And then you can correct the especially if you have a brand name, you can correct the value of the item, but it's meant to be something you can hand quickly to the insurance company, and if you do it ahead of time,

Robert Nordlund: 28:48

you're in good shape. Yeah, I'm going to speak to our audience now. Candace also told me about what she learned about fire hazards and chimneys, how that risk can be reduced using an infrared scanner, or an expert with an infrared scanner to find moisture in the exterior walls, around windows, in your place, right? Yes, to minimize termite damage, dry rot, things like that. And then she started telling me all these stories. I was like, we're not going to have enough time.

Candice Scanlon: 29:19

Candace, I think you're important. Who has a reserve set aside for their chimneys? We never even thought of it, okay? Oh, that's something we should have a reserved for. It was $135,000 to fix that problem, and we found out about it by serendipity. Again, yeah, about $1,000 per unit. I was out campaigning because it was election time, and I always ask the homeowners, is there anything that the Board should know about? And this one homeowner said, Well, you got my she wanted, she wanted to convert her fireplace, a wood burning one, to an electric or a gas fireplace. And so she had a chip. The Sweep come out to give her pricing and look at it. And he refused to touch it because her chimney liner was in such bad shape. When your liner cracks and breaks down, it exposes the framing, the wood framing of the house, and it can get to 1400 degrees in that chimney. And so it's a fire hazard.

Robert Nordlund: 30:23

Yeah, I think of that. What's a Ray Bradbury novel Fahrenheit 451, so that's a kindling point of paper, which is wood based products. So, yeah, that's well above the temperature.

Candice Scanlon: 30:35

That'll cause a fire. And you can't see it. You don't know it's crumbling. So the the homeowner said, well, didn't the board see the comments from the chimney sweep and all the pictures of the condition of the inside of the chimney or a property manager had not passed those on to the board. If I hadn't spoken to this homeowner, I never would have known. So, I mean, I don't get to give a letter out, but I walk around and talk to homeowners. I'm not supposed to, but I find reasons to do it.

Robert Nordlund: 31:12

Yeah, I'm not sure you can say you're not supposed to, because you're getting in your steps, you're communicating, you're building bridges from the board to owners. That's all good things. Well, I took

Candice Scanlon: 31:22

a class in cert. I understand your wife did too emergency responders training, right?

Robert Nordlund: 31:31

Was it community emergency response training? Yeah.

Candice Scanlon: 31:34

And so I hand out flyers on earthquake prep, getting ready for earthquake, so I can talk to homeowners about that. Anyhow, the chimneys were easily repaired, strangely enough, with just a coating that they put on the inside so we didn't have to tear them open. It really kept the cost down. And this chimney sweep knew what he was doing. I of course, researched it and looked at the warranty, and you know how long the quoting lasts and how it's applied, and all of that. Well, that's that was on the website, and that's available to every board member, but the others don't really dig that deep. So we're lucky. We found that one. Now we need a maintenance plan for that. How often and how much money will we need? They haven't done that yet. The point on that one, to me, that really stuck out is that there could be maintenance that you don't even know. You need a reserve for.

Robert Nordlund: 32:33

Yeah, you need to be open, aware. Again, some one of those C words is you want to be curious. You want to find out what's going on, and be I want to say, a lifetime learner. I can't just sit down. I'm looking at the clock here. This is so much great material, but I keep coming back to the idea of saving money, keeping us safe. Your comment about this being an investment, not an expense, and I just got to thank you for taking the time to join us in today's program, for sharing from your experience. I certainly would feel better safer as an owner in an association where you're on the board, you've certainly made that clear to me. Any final thoughts or words of wisdom that you'd like to share about your board member experience,

Candice Scanlon: 33:20

try to approach the association calmly with any thing that you want the board to know about. It goes a long ways. Don't expect to get it solved in one board meeting. Take your time with it and keep bringing it up with new information and and that keeps the communication open between the board members.

Robert Nordlund: 33:43

That's that persistence that you talked about earlier. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. Well, we wanted to publicly acknowledge Candace for performing a thankless job well, and for doing a remarkable job of improving her community, keeping it safe by being an effective, involved and educated board member. We're glad that there's board members like Candace scattered all across the country, and we want to give those kind of board board heroes the credit that they deserve, and we're glad to have a platform where we can share their inspiring stories. We hope you gain some HOA insights and encouragement from candace's experience that helps you bring common sense to your common area. And remember, if you match our definition of a board hero, or know someone who does, please reach out to us. We love having board heroes on our program. Our feedback tells us that you enjoy that also, our contact details are provided in the show notes. Thank you for joining us. Subscribe to the podcast. We look forward to having you join us for another great episode next week.

Announcer: 34:50

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