Kevin Davis: 0:00

It is a financial necessity for community associations to look at how they're going to communicate, how they're going to do a job better. We all we want to do is have our association be more valued than any other association in the area, in our zip code or in our community, wherever we live, at our condo or Hoa, whatever it is, we know that ours is the best, most well run association in the area. That means we're going to do well.

Announcer: 0:28

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that care about board members: 0:30

Association Insights and Marketplace, Association Reserves, Community Financials, Kevin Davis Insurance Services, and the Inspectors of Election. You'll find links to their website and social media in the show notes.

Robert Nordlund: 0:43

Hi, I'm Robert Nordlund of association reserves, and

Kevin Davis: 0:46

I'm Kevin Davis of Kevin Davis Insurance Services. And this is HOA Insights, where you promote common sense

Robert Nordlund: 0:52

for common areas. Well, welcome to episode number 150 where we're again speaking with insurance expert and regular co host, Kevin Davis. Early in 2026 we've been presenting some episodes that were full of helpful hints, like last week's episode 149, with Alden Michaels and Sean coffers from Cai introducing their free board member training course. But like so many other questions in life, the underlying question is, well, why should I care about this? And indeed, that's a fair question. Kevin and I started this podcast in response to the tragic Champlain tower South collapse. We wanted to create another pathway where board members could be encouraged and equipped for the hard work they do, leading their associations into the future. So why take our advice? Why are we doing this? What's in it for you and your association? Well, to catch you up a bit, if you did miss last week's episode number 149, on a free board member training course or any other prior episode, take a moment after today's program to listen from our podcast website, Hoa insights.org or search. Search for HOA insights on YouTube, and better yet, subscribe to our podcasts on YouTube, on its channel, so you don't miss any future episodes. More subscribers means a higher search ranking, which means we are able to help more struggling board members find us, and that will improve their association and the lives of all the owners in their association. That's what we're trying to accomplish here, one association at a time. Well, those of you watching on YouTube can see the HOA insights mug that I have here, and Kevin's got one too, that we got from our merch store, which you can browse through from our Hoa insights.org website or the link in our show's notes, and you'll find we have some great free stuff there, like board member zoom backgrounds and some specialty items for sale, like the mugs that we just showed. So go with the merch store. See if there's anything interesting there you'd like to purchase, or just download a free zoom background for your next board meeting. Well, we enjoy hearing from you responding to the issues you're facing at your association. So if you have a hot topic, a crazy story, or a question you'd like us to address, you can always contact us at 805-203-3130, or email us at HOA insights, at pod, excuse me podcast at Hoa insights.org but today's program is on us helping you appreciate why we're spending our time on these recordings, why we find these interesting board heroes, and why we find subject matter experts who want to share some key insights with you. So Kevin, it may be easier for you. You see it when it's not good for you, that's your world. Yeah.

Kevin Davis: 3:39

And you know what? You nailed it on the head when you say, why are we here? We're here because I see claims. Claims because Board of Directors make it's not a matter of making bad decisions. Sometimes they make no decisions. It is that to me, boards of directors of Community Association. I was one. I remember about 20 years ago or 30 years ago, I was with board of directors, yes, of a community association, and I was there. I wanted to do good. I wanted to make a difference. But like many board members out there who get into and want to make a difference, it doesn't take long for you to feel that weight of responsibility, that you you're alone, that nobody cares what you're doing. You've done some great things in your associations. I remember we we placed, we paired the south facing roofs. And at the annual meeting, we got destroyed because we didn't change the pool furniture, you know? And so once I realized that, I go, okay, I get board members community associations. Now I understand them. So every time I see a claim because they failure to increase the assessments, or failure to pass a special assessment, or failure to enforce the rules, or failure to force the rules uniformly, all these different things. I say, Robert, we have to let these people understand that if they do a good job, if they do the job that they require to do, and guess. What happens? The likelihood that having the claim is lesser, the likelihood of their premiums going up will be lesser. The people in the association will be more enjoyable. They will have more fun. All it takes for them is to focus on doing a good job.

Robert Nordlund: 5:15

My pen's smoking here again. And as a board member. You got into it for one reason or another. Again, like you said you thought was a good idea for me. Someone said, Well, can you be president? And I said, Okay, you know, how hard could this be? And you You start at it, and then there's that burden of, okay, what do I do next? Who do I go to for help? And realizing that you're carrying this weight, but,

Kevin Davis: 5:43

but this is the thing. This is the thing, Robert, is that that's when the choice is there to you. And I made a choice. I said, Okay, we need to learn. In order for us to do a better job, we have to take a step and go, Okay, how can I be effective? How can I look at these, these assessments that have been low for the past 30 years I've been in the association, or 20 years on long How do I make that decision? To say, we need to go up 10, 15% you know, the easy thing for me to do as a board member to say, Guess what? I think that maybe one more year, maybe one more year, maybe one more year. And then you think about when three years from now, I'm moved. I don't care. We have to make tough decisions, and we choose not to at the time we need to.

Robert Nordlund: 6:25

That reminds me that, as a board member, there's neither of us are attorneys, but there's this concept called the business judgment rule, and it protects board members. And for you, it's your world. It protects board members when they are well intended. They make a wrong mistake, but they are well intended. And that's just a wonderful thing, that you don't have to be

Kevin Davis: 6:47

perfect, and that's the reason why you have insurance. We sell directors officer liability insurance. And what directors and officers do? They have to make decisions. And they make a decision to say, well, guess what? We choose not to have a reserve fund right now, we choose to do that. That's a choice they made. Now, it's not illegal, you know? It's not something that they did for malicious reasons. They've made a choice. Well, you have insurance to pick to pay for you. When you make those kind of choices. The problem is, is that if you make the right choice, okay, and the right choice could be different for different people, then all of a sudden, the likelihood of you having to spend next year, two years, five years, going in and out of courtrooms, following emotions and looking for summary judgment and all those legal words, I had no idea what I'm saying, right though, and that's the point, is making the right decision. You know you're saying that business judgment? Well, yes, as long as you act in the best interest Association without conflict of interest, you know you should be protected. But it takes a little bit more than that. It takes your some initiatives that desire to say, I want to go beyond, because at the end of the day, when I go beyond, when I make that decision, to be better at it. Guess what? We thrive as a community. People are happier the values of our association, not only the values of our association go up, but our personal values go up too. There for good, positive reasons. Okay, then I feel good, and my message get out to the people who live in that community. Guess what happens now you have a good, positive, thriving community.

Robert Nordlund: 8:21

If you're thinking about I need to move forward. What can I do? I almost have this idea of stumbling forward, where you are making action, but you're doing the right things. You've said it a number of times, maintaining the property, collecting assessments, enforcing the documents and the rules, doing the right things may not be perfect, you know. What do you do when Mrs. Johnson, in unit number 13, is two months behind on her assessments? You love Mrs. Johnson, but she needs to pay her assessments. You know? So you I don't know what your 60 day process is, but do you need to go through the process and maybe you give her a payment plan? Those are the gray areas where you need to be stumbling forward.

Kevin Davis: 9:04

And this is the problem. What happens when you don't do it? Well, I mean, if you choose to say, You know what, Miss Johnson is a great person, let's give her a pass. Now, of a sudden you go to Mr. Wilson, who lives on the other side, who's not a nice person, and you file, you know, notices against him, and you get, you do all the different things. And then, all of a sudden, Mr. Wilson fire, Mr. Johnson, was treated differently. What we think Mr. Wilson is going to do? Mr. Wilson's upset now. He's upset with the board because the board is acting in a unfair manner. You know, where they are arbitrary enforcing the rules. And now all you can just imagine the kind of lawsuit you're going to have because it's

Robert Nordlund: 9:39

arbitrary rule enforcement? Well, there's a minefield. Everywhere you look, there's and that is literally your world with the decisions boards do and don't make. So how do they Is there a moral compass that's inside of us all, that it's the reason you got on the board, because you want to do good for the association you're volunteering. There's. So many probably good candidates for being on the board that say I can't because I have young kids, I have overtime at work, or I just just don't have the time. I get that. So of the people who can serve on the board, how do we cultivate and nurture the right kind of feelings and attitudes so that they are doing great things for the association.

Kevin Davis: 10:22

That's a good question. And I would say this, there are certain types of people on a board that want to do well, and there's certain types of people on the board who are just people who will be a nuisance. Okay, well, the nuisance and nothing you can do about and Abdul and spend a lot of energy and time on a nuisance, as opposed to saying that people who do well on the board, that spend our energy with them, teach them to be more skilled and help them do a better job, because they will get better. I mean, if you notice the things that we like, the things I enjoy doing, I get better at it, the things I don't like enjoying, guess what? We I just know I don't do well at I just want to manage it. I'd only be able to manage it. So if you have a nuisance person in the board or who lives in the community association, stop spending so much energy. Stop giving that person so much oxygen, to the point where you are bringing yourself down and the board down. You know, you got to say, thank you very much. We appreciate your concern. Let's get back to the roofs well,

Robert Nordlund: 11:20

and then that person, let's talk about that person who got on the board because they think that the board is embezzling, or they,

Kevin Davis: 11:29

most of them, think they boards incompetent, yes, yeah.

Robert Nordlund: 11:32

Or they think that the assessment should be the same as they were for the last 12 years, whatever it is. And you say, Fine. And Gloria, Fred, whatever the person name is. Can you double check my numbers here? And you know, maybe you can get them going so they clearly, their skill is looking at the numbers. Clearly their skill is looking at the contracts. Can you is there is a landscaper? Here's a landscape contract. Can you double check and make sure that they're doing everything that's in their contract? And contract, and maybe you find out that they're supposed to plant plants every six months, and you say, fantastic. Thank you so much. And all of a sudden they become a contributor rather than just a critic. And then I'm thinking that a board does not have to be unanimous. You can take advantage of people's do I say bias to make that constructive for the association is there ways you can do that?

Kevin Davis: 12:29

It's so important what you're just saying right there, because the consequences of not doing it is greater meaning. As you talk about the flowers every six months you got to plant them. Okay, guess what that nuisance is going to be doing? He's gonna wait for a six months in one day, right? And all of a sudden he's gonna sit back and do what follow notice, you know, to the boards in violation of the association documents. They should have done this yesterday at 12:01pm, now what happens there? And you just said it. Now, if the board, when you go back to the board, gets together and you reach consensus, as opposed to say, well, guess what? I knew we should. Because again, the boards now sitting there, and they know the nuisance going to that nuisance guy going to come in and say, it's been announced 60 plus one day. But if the board's united, they don't have to agree on everything but the boys united and say, Thank you very much. We will get on it right away. Don't know, I'm going to file a lawsuit. I'm going to get it. Guess what? My brother is a lawyer. My uncle's a lawyer. And you always hear that all the time, someone in their family is a lawyer, and they would get upset. Now here's the key thing with these things, if you do the job the right way, if you say, Guess what? It's been 60 plus one day. And the reason why? Because over the last week, we've had torrential rains or snow storms, or wherever it is, or what it could be, any long as you have a reason, a reason, you go back, because the judge is going to say, Okay, how were you harmed? Okay, what you mean? How were you harmed that one day that the plants, you know, the two of us, weren't implanted, how were you harmed? And that's the end. But the key thing is, is that if you get into a battle with them, if you start fighting with them, if the board gets together and start fighting now, all of a sudden, you giving that lawyer reasons to stay in court a lot longer. Don't forget, as a lawyer, he doesn't care if he gets somebody, if he gets Mr. Wilson in unit number 12, who calls up and says the flowers are one day late, he gonna charge you by the hour. And so he goes to court. He gonna charge you by you know, he's gonna make a lot of money just sitting there, just charging you and charging you. So he has no interest in solving it. He wants to let this thing go on and go. Because you're mad. You're upset now, all of a sudden, the board's upset because, you know, they have to go to court everything. Because instead of them saying, Yes, we should have done it Okay, we will do it tomorrow. You know, we had this legitimate reason why. You know, the President was out of town, that's something we can fight. You know you want to be in a position where you want to be in a defendable position when something like that happens, end up not being because you go to the nuisance level, and you can't do that. You can't beat that nuisance when you lose that battle, when you lower

Robert Nordlund: 14:55

yourself to that if we're going to lower anything, I like the phrase you've used so many times. You want to lower the 10. Temperature. Thank you. Acknowledge them. Lower the temperature, but just don't go down and be fighting that. I remember an episode long, long, long ago. I'll find it and I'll put it in the show notes. I, both of us, interviewed George Nowak, oh yes, a Georgia attorney. And just, I love his just the way it sounds when he speaks with wisdom. You think he's talking about something classic American, but he talked about how it is impossible to do everything absolutely correct. And my head started to spin, because I was thinking, if you do the right things, good things will happen. And he says it's impossible to do all the right things. And there are these protections that if you are acknowledging, if you're trying your best and use the word a moment ago, what's the harm? You know, you don't want to be short cutting things, but you do want to appreciate that you're running a community. It's a living organism. And what did we learn in covid that we're supposed to wash our hands for 20 seconds, and am I saying it inappropriately? I don't think I wash my hands for soap and water for 20 seconds all the time. You know, life isn't about perfect. Life is about doing your best and trying to do the most best, the most can I say the most best the most of the time?

Kevin Davis: 16:17

It's that, but also being aware of what the situation is that you're in front of you right now. Because what happens? We get overwhelmed, too. If I'm again, when I was a board member and I wanted, I expected praise, because if we did something that was positive, we repaired the porches that was facing the sun, nobody cared.

Robert Nordlund: 16:36

You remember that to this day?

Kevin Davis: 16:38

Exactly, exactly porches. Decades ago, and it's still like, you know, you feel it. It's funny though, because when you sing that meeting, and we expected to be, yes, great, great job of facing those porches, it was about the pool furniture that's been old and outdated. You know, it's like, it's the shock to my system, and it's like, I'm getting off the board and never serve on the board again and and that's what the problem is, is that you have good people with well intentions that says, You know what? I this is not for me. I you know, it doesn't make sense to me. However, since then, we learned, what I learned is that if you stay on the board and you do a good job at end of the day, the values of your association will be higher than the one across the street. You know, there's a lot of associations in here in certain areas, and all of a sudden your job is to do one thing. I want to make sure the values of our homes or our units is greater than anyone else in our area. That way, when people come in, they want to buy, it's easy to buy and sell. And if we had that attitude, then it can overcome, you know, the nuisance people that we have. And because, guess what, we all know who that nuisance is. We know who that person, that him or her is, and we know it was more than one. We know we have to be able to minimize their exposure, minimize their influence over us, because the easiest thing to do is spend way too much time and energy on that individual, talking about

Robert Nordlund: 18:06

board members. We're presuming the board members got on the board for good intentions. There are exceptions, and there are situations where a board member with good intentions then misuses that power maybe again, because they they felt they were trying to do good things, running the the association as their own kingdom, rather than working with the board. And so there's different things that can happen, but still, we're trying to talk about if you do the right things the right way, running it with a board that is reflecting the best interest of the association. Julia's talked about mission vision values things like that, where who do we want to be? What do we want to be known for? And that gets you above the fray of the minutia of a nuisance person, a nuisance board member, those little things that you just don't want to get stuck. To get stuck in. But let's

Kevin Davis: 19:03

go back to what you said about that person. Who is he wants his own king. He comes in with the right reasons. I want to make the association better. I want to increase the values of our unit. And he gets in there, and all of a sudden he becomes the king, and he wants to as his way of doing it. He's doing it the right way in his mind. Now, if that person really, truly wants to do it that way and be that person, the likelihood of us changing that person is greater. We can give them information to make that person more informed. We can communicate that person better, as opposed to that individual who's a nuisance and wants to stay a nuisance. So we have separate the person who's a out. If he's a board like you just said, he could be a union owner, he could be a board member rent or whatever it is is that you we need to, you know, marginalize that person. If that person happens to be the president associations, then you have a problem. But if that person is not a nuisance, but a mean, well, that person can change anybody who has who's there for the right reasons, you know, can. Change, but you have to communicate with that person and not isolate them or push them away. The easiest thing to do is to walk away that person and make fun of him and talk about him at the pool, which they all do. You know, guess what the president did this time? I can't believe it, you know, don't listen to anything I say. And then all of a sudden he goes down deeper and deeper into a hole, as opposed to walking up to him and says, You know what? Like you said before. You know, here is the landscaping invoices for the past. Can you take a look at them, and let's talk

Robert Nordlund: 20:26

about them. Do they add up? Do they add up? Yeah.

Kevin Davis: 20:29

But that's difference, though, most people will tend to if that strong enough person gets people walk away, you know, as opposed to taking a step forward and saying, let's work together. Let's try to solve this problem together. If you try to solve it together again, if that person goes in for the right reasons, because when you flying out, the person with the right reasons, that person says, You know what? Thank you. I can use the help. I appreciate your help.

Robert Nordlund: 20:53

I think there's so much that is all about community that we fail to appreciate. We think that sometimes these associations are just a business, and I want to talk more about community, looking at the time here, I think the time is getting away from us, so let's Kevin, let's do this. Let's take a break and let's talk about the community side of things, and how it's not just things that we do, but how we're building community and how we can create the future. So it's time to hear, take a break and hear from one of our general sponsors, after which we'll be back with more common sense for common areas.

Kevin Davis: 21:26

Hi, I'm Kevin Davis, the president of Kevin Davis Insurance Services. Our experienced team of underwriters will help you when you get that declination. We provide the voice of reason, someone who will stand by you. Our underwriters bring years of knowledge to our clients that can't be automated by technology or driven by price. As a proud and women's company, we bring true value to your community association clients. We are your community association insurance experts, and

Robert Nordlund: 21:55

we're back well at most associations. I'm aware that there's real estate agents who farm different neighborhoods, and the real estate agents know what's going on at the association. So if your association is a well functioning Association, the real estate agents tend to know that, and they tend to be favorable in the kind of things they say about your association, and the unit values tend to be higher. What do you see from your side of things?

Kevin Davis: 22:22

Kevin, yeah, for me, it's the same way of insurance. You know, as an insurance professional, we look to the better well run community associations, because guess what they get. They get better rates, they get better terms and conditions. You know, we stay on their policy a lot longer. If they have a claim, the likelihood of us canceling them or not renewing them is lessened. It is a financial necessity for community associations to look at how they communicate, how they going to do a job better, because it does make sense. It's a real estate market there you want to sell your unit, the likelihood of a realtor coming to your association that they know as well managed well run a Community Association. They know. Again, like I said, we all we want to do is have our association be more valued than any other association in the area, in our zip code or in our community, wherever we live, at our condo or Hoa, whatever it is, we know that ours is the best, most well run association in the area. That means we're going to do well in terms of insurance, when tell in terms of selling our homes, we're going to the value unit, going to the pool is going to be nicer and more it is just going to be overall. Make more sense.

Robert Nordlund: 23:31

I'm aware of two associations close to where I live, neighboring associations. It's a street that has Association a, association B, association C on it, things like that. They're slightly different, but one association I know has a big special assessment going on now for insurance because they didn't take the recommendation to trim their bushes on their perimeter fence. We can use the word recommendation, but that's one of those silly, simple, wonderful things to do. When someone says, Hey, lower your hazard risk. You want to do that kind of thing, and now they've got the difference between one association whose insurance was stable, neighboring Association insurance was increased so much that they have a special assessment. What's that going to do to home sales?

Kevin Davis: 24:16

What happens on that situation is the same thing. If you have problems your hedges. Guess what? You're gonna have problem the drainage and you got a problem with everything else. That's what we see. Is that if insurance professional says, Well, we have a problem that seems small, insignificant, that is one of many problems that you are having that association. Because, again, you took your eye off the ball. You took your eye off the maintenance ball. You know, all insurance people can do and say, Listen, we see X, Y and Z. Take care of x, y and z, but we also see 123, A, B, C, 456, that's the reason why that rates went all the way up. Because what we're saying is that, guess what, we really don't want to insure you, we'd rather be go someplace else, because that's why your rates are up. Where the one across the street, you know, they they trim their hedges, but they also take care of the. Drainage. They also take care of the pools and the common area. They clean it. They make sure it's well lit. And so you can go in there and see it's as simple as that. If you have a well maintained Association, I'm an insurance professional, I'm going to love walking to a Association that's well maintained because I know I can get a better deal that's not managed correctly, not well maintained correctly. Guess what's going to happen? I'll make more money off of it, because going from here to here, I've made a lot more money. But guess what? Is a lot more work for me. And guess what? I may not even keep it, you know, I might not even get somebody to insure it. I rather take nice, well managed communities and and be able to handle them, to be a look at them now and say, Guess what? We got another good year for you people across the street, their rates went up by it doubled. Yours maybe went up 10 15% I'd rather do that all day long than write an account that has that went up three or four times. I make three or four times much money on it. But guess what? The responsibility? Yeah, going to the meetings and telling them that, guess what, because you didn't trim your hedges, and then, guess what, I'm ripping them off. I'm the worst guy in the world. You know, I'm making more money. And can you share? I mean, it's just a nightmare.

Robert Nordlund: 26:11

Well, the only reason you're charging more is because the risk is higher. You don't want the place to burn down because there's a fire. No one wins there. The insurance company doesn't win. I want to take you back to a word that you said. You took your eye off the ball. And in my world, the world of reserves, it happens because the board members are focusing so much on low monthly assessments, and they are looking at the bills that come in the mail or email or however, and they're trying to minimize those, and they forget about reserves and the roof that is above your head that every day is getting a little bit older, the asphalt that's getting a little more worn out, the paints that's getting a little drier, all these kinds of things when the board members take their eye off the ball and then all of a sudden they're focusing on this minutia of the, I hate to say the minutia of The operating budget, but they're missing all these other things that end up being, on average, about 25% of an Association's total budget. And when you're missing 25% of the bill that you're supposed to be paying, that just adds up over a few years, and all of a sudden you have a special assessment. And there's no surprise. There's just no surprise,

Kevin Davis: 27:18

yeah, and again, after that happens, your rates going to go up and your insurance rates going to go up again. Going to go up again. It's a compounding effect. It's easier. We think it's hard to be good, hard to run a well managed Association. It's hard. But guess what? If you don't do it, the consequences of a radar, you know you're right, the roof starts to leak eventually. Now, of a sudden, you want to be able to have water damage throughout the association. Again, it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. Now you need, you know, $10,000 here, and 15,000 and insurance doesn't cover it. Insurance, you're talking about making things a lot worse by not being good to Association. You know, I mean, a lot of people think that, well, I'm not being bad. They sleep at night. Well, I know what's happening the association across the street, they are really bad. So your so your bar is not being bad, as opposed to your bar is being good. Your floor is I'm not bad, you know. And so your silly happens to be, you know, okay, yeah, yeah. So you go from not being bad to just being okay, as opposed to your floor being, you know, what? We want to be okay. We want to be a we want to be okay, but our goal is to be up here. We want to make sure we maintain to have a well run manager Association all the time. That's our goal. You know, not being bad.

Robert Nordlund: 28:36

Another way of looking at it is, I think we all watched a lot of Olympics recently, and those were people that, can we say, sacrificed six, eight hours a day training, six, seven days a week for years. We're not talking about that kind of commitment. We're talking about just, I feel like so much of our life is made up of the small decisions. Do I have that extra candy bar? Do I get to the gym? The little decisions that over time just adds up and creates the future that we want to live in? And that's the same thing at an association. Can you smile? Can you say hello as you're walking to get your mail? Can you lower the temperature? Can you be kind to Mrs. Smith, even though she's a pain in the ass, just all these little things that add, can you set the tone? And we talked about that good old Mrs. Johnson that's laid on her assessments, you need to be firm, but you need to be fair. All the little decisions that just add up can is that what we're talking about here.

Kevin Davis: 29:38

But we just said, though, you know you have to make you have to take the choice. It's a choice there to say, Mrs. Johnson. Listen, we understand. We understand. But you know, if we let you get away with this, we let you not continue to pay assessments. Guess what? Mr. Not miss. You can't say Mr. Johnson, but people on the other side, guess what's going to happen to them? They don't stop paying. So it goes back to. To me a choice. And you said these little things add up, add up, add up and add up to, guess what? Your roof sleeking. I suppose you're taking care of it 20 years ago. It's the little things that you choose to say, wait a minute, right now. We have to stop and make a decision, because we know it's like those nagging it's like, okay, you're like us right now. We had a Colson in January. Okay, you had a call since January, but we are making a choice to understand that. Yes, I got it for her. We were not ignoring it. We understand it. We are being we are aware what's going on. We're not saying, I'm not going to worry about it. Our bodies, you know, we brush our teeth in the morning. You know, we make sure that we take medication. We need medication. We the things that we do to take care of ourselves. It matters. We made a choice. The same thing in Community Association and board members, you know, we have to make a choice. We make a choice that is going to matter to us at the end of the day that my house, my home, my unit, is worth more today than it was when I first bought it years ago.

Robert Nordlund: 31:02

Yeah, you need to add those up, those little choices, what's good for the association, what's good for the association, what's good for the association. And all of a sudden, you look back over a year, or five years, or however long you're on the board, and you realize, holy moly, this is a good association that we live in. People aren't parking their cars in the red zones, the garbage cans are in and out at the right times. People are enjoying the pool. The pool has a good season. The roofs are water tight. All of a sudden you realize, Wow, this is a good association. And like we talked about earlier, the real estate agents know too, yeah, this is a good association, and hope values are stronger, and you get paid

Kevin Davis: 31:44

for it. And I think you nailed something that was important when you said that. You know, we have a choice. We can look at that roof every single year and ignore it, or we can look at that roof go, You know what? We need to fix that, but not only the roof, but also fix the banister that's that's gotten loose and, oh, we also got to fix the drainage system, and we also got those are the choices we make. And most of the times we choose the other way and go, Oh no, maybe next year. Oh no, maybe next year. And that what takes us down that rabbit hole of not having a well managed Community Association.

Robert Nordlund: 32:15

Yeah, all the little things add up. Well, Kevin, gee, it's the treat often. You know, as often as we do this, it's a high point of my day just to be able to spend some time and chat with you. And we had everyone, we had a list of things that we were going to talk about, and we, I don't think we got past the second bullet point. There's a lot going on here, and we do want the best for your association. So Kevin, any closing thoughts to add at this time.

Kevin Davis: 32:41

You know what? Again, to me, it's making a choice in your community to go in one direction or the other. What happens if you don't make a choice? It's going to go in the wrong direction, whichever one you choose, it's going to happen. If you choose to be positive, it's going to work. If you choose to be negative, it's going to work. But you got to make that choice.

Robert Nordlund: 32:59

Yeah, and association is community. It's a reflection of who's in there at the association. It's a reflection of the leadership. And so you get to make a difference just by being who you are and saying, I choose to be. And then all of a sudden, the ripple effects are throughout the entire Association. Well, we hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. Thank you for joining us. We look forward to bringing more episodes to you week after week after week. We'll be here, and it'll be great to have you join us on a regular basis. Spread the word.

Announcer: 33:38

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