Kevin Davis: 0:00

We have to have a plan B when technology doesn't work. He goes when it doesn't work, and you live in 4000 units. You don't want 10% of that group, 400 people yelling and screaming at the board because the board failed to do something and they weren't prepared for it.

Sherry Branson: 0:14

No, you don't want to see claims from it, that kind of a thing, and you don't want to threaten anybody's safety. You have to think about everything. Really, technology creates like a lot of new worries, a lot of concerns that have to be addressed.

Announcer: 0:26

HOA Insights is brought to you by five companies

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Association Insights and Marketplace, Association Reserves, Community Financials, Kevin Davis Insurance Services, and the Inspectors of Election. You'll find links to their website and social media in the show notes.

Kevin Davis: 0:42

Hi, I'm Kevin Davis, the president of Kevin Davis Insurance Services,

Sherry Branson: 0:45

and I'm Sherry Branson of Kevin Davis Insurance Services, and this is HOA Insights, where we promote common sense

Kevin Davis: 0:52

for common areas. Welcome everybody to episode 167. I have a very fascinating conversation with Sherry and I going to have on the knowledge gap. You know where we are looking at community associations right now really are just not up to par when it comes to things like cyber risks, AI, and technology today. So we're going to take a deep dive into it, and we're going to talk about it, and hopefully we can make you guys just a little bit more informed, so you can make better decisions when it comes to cyber technology and AI. Now, Sherry, before we get started, we're going to first of all, I have my from our swag shop. So visit HOAinsights.org Sherry, you still haven't gotten one yet, have you?

Sherry Branson: 1:39

I still haven't gotten one. No, I keep you know every time we do a podcast, Kevin. I say I'm going to contact Robert or Kathy, and I definitely will contact them though because I definitely want some of that swag. I love it. I think it's great.

Kevin Davis: 1:50

Sure, just log into hoinsights.org and get whatever you want down there. We have some great stuff there for you. And if you have any questions or if you miss any of our podcasts, go to our YouTube channel, it's all there. We have a lot of great things in there for you. If you have any questions or any great ideas or any good stories you want to share, also go to our hoa insight.org and let us know. So, Sherry, we're going to talk about what?

Sherry Branson: 2:16

Yeah, we're going to talk about you know the knowledge gap, Kevin, which is really interesting because things are changing so rapidly and so quickly in the world of technology, and businesses and people are trying are kind of scrambling to keep up. You know,

Kevin Davis: 2:30

and I guess we should define what this knowledge gap is. You know, what what are we talking about? And this is what I'm saying, basically, that technology is evolving faster than the knowledge you need to require it. So we taking into consideration understanding, oversight, managing a community association today. We're taking consideration that it has evolved. It's not the same as it was, what five years ago at all. Yeah,

Sherry Branson: 2:58

not at all, Kevin. Not at all. I mean, every seems like every six months there's something new, you know. It's it's it's changing just so rapidly and so fast, and I don't know if any person can keep have the education to keep up with it at the same pace.

Kevin Davis: 3:14

And that's our conversation we're going to have today. You and I going to have today is that what are we worried about? What are the five things that if you are a communication board member and we talk about this knowledge gap, what are they, and what is important right now? Now, the key thing to this knowledge gap, though, is to understand that there are criminals out there who are looking at community associations, and they're knowing that they have reserve money there, that they have operating income, and they know that people like you, Sherry, lives in the community association, but they all live in community associations, and they want your data.

Sherry Branson: 3:48

Absolutely, Kevin. Yeah, the associations of property managers-they're holding on to everybody's personal data, their addresses, their phone numbers, their email addresses, their social security numbers, their checking accounts, if they're paying their HOA dues online, these company, the property managers, and then the association, which is all volunteers, volunteer board members, they're holding on to a lot of valuable information that hackers want.

Kevin Davis: 4:16

And you know what? It's interesting because it used to want only the money and the data, but today now they want access, and what they use is malware out there to get access. Number one is spyware. Spyware is what they all love to have because they sit in our computer and they're watching everything I'm doing right now. They watching everything you're doing right now and waiting for you go to the bank and just waiting there, the amount of malware that's out there that these attackers, these hackers can go into, is just unbelievable. And again, it goes back to we're talking about nonprofit volunteers who lack that knowledge and experience when it comes to cyber, AI, and technology today.

Sherry Branson: 5:00

And you know, Kevin, as you mentioned earlier a little while ago, you know every company, every person, and community associations, including the board members and the property managers, are using technology for everything now. For everything.

Kevin Davis: 5:14

Let's start. We're going to talk about five areas that's going to be a really big concern. That's something you we talk about the knowledge gap. It's pretty clear. So number one, social engineering. Social engineering is the way cyber criminals get into your computer, and it's the easiest way for them to get into your computer.

Sherry Branson: 5:34

Absolutely, yeah. Email. They can do it through email. Even you had it happen during through social media can happen through social media. I mean, it can happen in so many different ways, and basically, that's manipulating people where they come up with fake emails that look like real emails from a vendor or from a board member, maybe or the treasurer of an association, asking them to cut a check. When I attended a trade show in Florida years back, a treasurer told me that she had received an fraudulent email asking her to cut a $10,000 check. So she picked up the phone and she called the person who had sent it to her, and it looked. She said it looked legitimate, you know. So people can be manipulated, but she luckily she caught it. She made a phone call,

Kevin Davis: 6:17

and you know, Sherry, AI has made this thing so much easier because they are just gotten so smart and so better at crafting these emails, having my voice recognition there, and even visually looking like me. So that it's so much easier to trick people into giving people what they want, and that's all social engineering is: is tricking you into give me what I want from your system. It could be a passcode. It can be your information, your routing number, your bank number, and that we see it. I would say I remember the first claim that we ever seen from social engineering is where that the landscaper was hacked, and the landscaper was hacked. All his emails went out to all his clients, and they said, "Please pay now to avoid late fees. Here's my new bank and routing number.

Sherry Branson: 7:06

Wow, yeah, I mean they, you know, they can hack the vendor that you're working with and compromise their email. And like you said, it looked like a real email, and you know, it just goes from there. And you know, there was a situation in Oklahoma where a property management, the owner of a property management company, started getting text messages, but they were, you know, it was social engineering text messages, and it ended up resulting in a $3 million loss to the to the HOA accounts, the reserve accounts, because she managed quite a few HOAs in Oklahoma. They're coming up with ingenious different ways to get people, and they just make it look real, and you're caught off guard if you don't double check. Then it's too late.

Kevin Davis: 7:49

And one thing is that you can do to avoid it, and that is when you get an email. First of all, it says new bank and routing number. Forget it, because we don't change bank and routing numbers. But if you have any suspicion? Just pick up the phone and call the vendor up. Now, don't call the number that's on the letter. Call their direct line and say, "Wait a minute, I got an invoice from you for X number of dollars. I don't understand. We paid you already, you know, because what you want to do is avoid a situation in the future where you actually pay the fictitious person, and then the landscaper is still looking for his money. That's number one. That social engineering. Now number two, and it's my favorite one. It's technology dependency. We have gotten to a point where we have really depend on technology, and I'm gonna give you a point for me personally. And I love this story. So when I leave work, okay, in the afternoon. I go to my car, and guess what? I don't need my key anymore. As close I get to my car, my phone says it's Kevin close to the car. Boom! It comes on, lights up, mirrors go out. You know, I get inside the car, push a button, start the car, and I start on my way home. Now I get halfway home. I look at, go, wait, it's 90 degrees outside, so I want to be able to cool my house down. So I go to my phone and tell the app in my phone to lower the air conditioning just a little bit of it. So when I get home, it'd be nice and cool. As I get close to home, pull into the driveway. There's that the ring camera right there. It rings, and guess what? It notifies my wife where she's at at the store, wherever that somebody's coming in there. It's me, and she doesn't panic because I'm coming home, and it's great. I got the car. You know, my phone unlocks my front door. I walk in, turns on my lights, and guess what? I'm ready for the evening. I check my mail-not my regular mail from the post office, but my emails. I go my banking. I communicate. That's what happens now. I'm depending on all that technology today. That technology makes a difference in my life. Now, if one of those things go wrong, if I come in and my garage doesn't open up, or that security camera is not working, or lock doesn't work, I'm not a happy guy. I'm upset now. Imagine Sherry that all of a sudden you-how many units you live in your home loan association?

Sherry Branson: 10:04

Uh, it's large. It's probably I think about 4000 homes.

Kevin Davis: 10:09

Yeah. Now, can you imagine? Okay, I just list a whole bunch of things there that are I'm dependent on from a technological point of view. Now, could you imagine in your association if these things stop working correctly, if your security system broke down, you know, or you can't get into the lot, you can't get into the pool, you can't get into that front gate, you know.

Sherry Branson: 10:30

We had a situation a couple of years ago where the gates weren't working, the key cards, like the whole system went down, the security system. So that did happen, and everybody was, you know, freaking out about it. So, yeah, if all of a sudden one thing goes wrong, people panic. You know what I mean? They they really they get nervous. It could be something from just fixing the gates. You know, that's something that can be fixed. But you know, what if somebody got locked in and couldn't get out, or you know that kind of a thing? I mean, there's situations that could happen that could cause an association to get claims that they never thought they they could get.

Kevin Davis: 11:06

But our dependency is because of our convenience. Don't forget, the reason why this dependency is so important to me and to you and everybody else because it's convenient. But the convenience is at what costs. You know, our convenience sometimes is that we lose perspective, like for example, I went to fly into LAX recently, and escalator is not working, and it's a group of people standing there wondering what to do. Now the escalator is not working. Now the stairs right next to it, but people looking and started talking to each other and wondering, you know, we're used we're used to convenience, and that convenience-it just creates that dynamic there, where all of a sudden, because of you know that convenience, we don't know what to do. We lost track of the things that have made really made a difference.

Sherry Branson: 11:53

Yeah, where we get so I think the faster, the more technological advances that happen, and the more accustomed you get get to using it, when it's taken away, you're just kind of in shock. You know the face recognition thing for apps. You know, like I use it a lot of on a lot of my apps, and if it doesn't work, I'm like, oh no, now I have to remember the password. Well, I haven't used the password in like six months. You know what I mean? Like now, look up the password. I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but happens to me a lot. Where for some reason, face recognition will work, and then it doesn't work. You know, so I don't. Yeah,

Kevin Davis: 12:27

but that's the whole point: is that we we get to a point we depend on it so much that now of a sudden we want to hold that board responsible for something that's not working correctly. So instead of being sued or I made a claim against you, board of directors. Just have a backup plan. Just understand that. Guess what? Technology isn't perfect. There are situations where, guess what, you may be locked out of your system. You may be locked out of your system because there's some there's a ransomware attack on you. So have a plan. Have a backup plan. Have a kind of plan that says, guess what? We're prepared for these things to happen, and you're notifying the people who live in the community. If these things happen, this is what we do: have a plan. So the first one we talked about social engineering. Second one is that we depend on technology so much that we take everything for granted because it's convenient and fast. But we have to have a plan B when technology doesn't work. He goes when it doesn't work, and you live in 4000 units. You don't want 10% of that group, 400 people yelling and screaming at the board because the board failed to do something and they weren't prepared for it.

Sherry Branson: 13:34

Exactly, exactly. You don't want it to be a crisis or a giant emergency. You want to make sure that you're prepared. You know you don't want to see claims from it, that kind of a thing, and you don't want to threaten anybody's safety. And of course, their information. You don't want their information stolen, that kind of a thing. So, yeah, you have to think about everything. Really, technology creates like a lot of new worries, a lot of concerns that have to be addressed. So let's

Kevin Davis: 14:00

go to the next one here. The next one is smart buildings. We just talked about, but basically we're talking about the Internet of Things, I O T. You know, I O T is a hot new word that everybody is either ignoring, but is the future. The Internet of Things. The inner Internet of Things is

this: 14:22

is that there are things that work by the internet, like the things I just mentioned-the door locking, the heating, air conditioning come on, maybe an elevator, and things. So you have the internet and things. So that's what goes together, and they communicate with each other, and they communicate and come up with different information in terms of how is it working? Is it not working? Accuracy? All these different things. So when you talk about the Internet of Things, it's really important because that is the future. That is now. When I go to my car and my and my door opens up, it is the Internet with things with stuff, and that's very very important. Now there are three things to be concerned about with. The Internet of Things. Number one, they don't update things. They update your phones. They update your internet. They update everything. But when it comes to things, when they talk about the locks, when they talk about the air conditioning, when you talk about the elevator, when you talk about all the things that the internet is running through the cloud or whatever it is, those things don't get updated. So by not getting updated, those patches and stuff that get on your phone, we're finding out that uh oh, my phone is not really working the way it should, and then you update it, but the things don't get updated. So that's number one. Number two is they have the original factory settings there, okay. That means if they have a password, it's welcome 123 or just welcome, or the name of the is the factory setting that's there, and we don't change them. The attackers out there know what the factory settings are, so again, what they're doing is going after the things, and those things can get into your system, especially in community associations, because community associations usually have one server connected to all the things.

Sherry Branson: 16:08

So they're more

Kevin Davis: 16:08

vulnerable. Definitely more vulnerable. Most corporations will have a server for the things and a server for the internet and server maybe a separate server for all their financial information. But right now, the community association may only have one server for all of

Sherry Branson: 16:23

it. Ah, that's a big problem.

Kevin Davis: 16:24

And at the original factory setting, and that includes the router, the router that they have, including all the information they have. They never change that.

Sherry Branson: 16:34

That's scary. That is that is pretty scary. Yeah, it's just they're just not aware of all of the risks, and the hackers are going to go after the most vulnerable entrance point. And if the things are not updated, they know that you know they haven't been updated. Then that's how they're going to get in there. That's what they're going to do.

Kevin Davis: 16:54

And the third thing is privacy settings because they collect data. You know, the the they collect data, the internet and the things. The data goes back and forth. Now, if you don't update your privacy settings, guess what happens?

Sherry Branson: 17:10

Yeah, your data gets stolen.

Kevin Davis: 17:12

But you don't know. We have no idea. You can go into your privacy settings and says,"I want to make this available only for me, or whatever the right privacy setting. And guess what? You don't have that problem anymore. But what we do is that we ignore it, and because we ignore it, we end up getting into the trouble. Because again, what are we talking about here? We're talking about a gap in knowledge, gap in knowledge that has to be fixed to avoid any kind of claim against that board of directors in the future because of a loss, or because of just an accident, you know, just because the mistake was made. I mean, look, I know I flip the light switch on, the light comes on. If that light doesn't come on, I have no idea why it's not coming on. You know, I had right. I mean, I can change the light bulb, but we just don't know. Now, that's okay for me not knowing, but if you live in a 4000 unit homeowner association-that's not good enough for saying I don't know why it's not working.

Sherry Branson: 18:05

Right? Yeah, the board members have to know. They have to either stand top of it themselves or have an expert to refer to to make sure that they have all the answers. You know what I mean? When a big problem happens, they don't want to just be caught saying I don't know. Now you know after the fact, after the situation happens, when there's a problem, you want to make sure the experts are there to help you in the beginning, or you have the proper training. But you know, technology. Most board members are not IT experts. You know what I mean? It's not their job to to handle an entire IT department. So I think having a cyber expert and IT expert is a great way to go.

Kevin Davis: 18:42

Exactly, at least somebody on call that you can call, you know. And the problem with associations is because they are volunteers, you know. And when they have board of directors meetings, their priorities is what's happening on Netflix instead of not worrying instead of worrying about your budget and your assessments and enforcement, but you worry about other things, but one thing you have to add to that list of things you have to worry about is cyber risks, AI technology. It has to be done.

Sherry Branson: 19:11

Yeah, yeah, it has to be done, especially in these smart communities and smart buildings, and and everything being controlled by technology. Now you have to have somebody on call.

Kevin Davis: 19:20

All right, time for a break. We'll take a quick break and come back. We got two more, and we'll review the three that we've talked about. Go to the two more and talk about a little bit about insurance, but not too much because I don't want to make you know. It's not about insurance. It's about you know this gap in knowledge. So take a quick break. Hi, Kevin Davis, the president of Kevin Davis Insurance Services. Our experienced team of underwriters will help you when you get that declination. We provide the voice of reason, someone who will stand by you. Our underwriters bring years of knowledge to our clients that can't be automated by technology or driven by price. As a proud Enwind company, we bring true value to your community as well. Association clients, we are your community association insurance experts. Okay, well, welcome back, everybody, and let's talk about where we've been. Number one, social engineering people trying to pretend there's somebody or not to go after your money, your data access into system. The second thing is dependency on technology. You know, we've gotten used to the things that matter to us that makes our lives convenient. When they're not convenient, whose fault is it? We want to blame the board. We want to blame the the vendor. We're going to blame somebody. But we're not going to take responsibility for it anymore because we expect it. We expect life to be a certain way. The third one is the Internet of Things. The Internet of Things is the third one, and we just be worried about that. They don't update the things itself. This at the original settings, so that passwords, the welcome 123, whatever it is, is there, still there, and the privacy settings have to be dealt with. So that's the first three. So now where we at the next one is data privacy. Now data privacy has evolved over the years. Before the data privacy is just was your name, social security number, your name, driver's license number, your name, and something that was a personal identifiable information that identifies you specifically, but something that is supposed to be protected by law. Okay, so that's the way it has been for years. It has been your job as a board member is to make sure that data is protected. Now something new is happening is biometrics because now then. facial recognition is there, and the question is: Do you have the right to keep that facial recognition data?

Sherry Branson: 21:51

Right. Yeah. More you. I know that Illinois, I believe Kevin currently has

Kevin Davis: 21:57

have a biometric law out there that says you can't keep store that information.

Sherry Branson: 22:02

Ah, interesting.

Kevin Davis: 22:03

Just like if you go to the airport, you see them say in there that that they don't keep it. They take the picture right there, and boom, they go and they don't keep that information. It disappears. Wait a minute, that's what they say disappears.

Sherry Branson: 22:14

Yeah, we don't know if they're really keeping it or not, do we? Yes,

Kevin Davis: 22:18

but at least they recognize the fact that they have to let us know that it's not there because you know their privacy concerns. So what has happened over the years again, these things have changed. So all of a sudden you have a new you know security system that keeps track of people's bio information. Ah, maybe against the law to do that, you know. And even even if it is or is not against the law, I maybe in unit number 16 don't want you to keep that information, and I'm willing to go to a judge to have you make sure you don't keep it.

Sherry Branson: 22:51

Right, right. The association might make the decision to let's start using biometric face recognition at the pool to get or the clubhouse to get in and out, not realizing that that could open up a whole can of worms down the road, if homeowners there's no state no laws in that particular state, you know what I mean regarding biometrics, and some homeowner decides they're upset that they're holding onto their facial, their their picture, their photo.

Kevin Davis: 23:17

So what happened again is that it didn't evolve. You know, two or three years ago, or for the past however many years, when you talk about data privacy, it is your data, which is your name, social security number, your name, and your banking information, your name and driver's license number. It has evolved into your name, your biometric, what you look like, who you are. Could you imagine if the information gets out, and all of a sudden, how many AI created people you can create from just that facial recognition?

Sherry Branson: 23:48

Absolutely, yeah. AI, you know, they're just taking pictures of people or videos of people and turning them into AI models or whatever you call them, you know, and like clones, really, like AI clones of people. So yeah.

Kevin Davis: 24:03

All right. So the next one, and this is the one that it's made a big difference, and I call it vendor integration. It can be associated as more vendors coming in and out of that place than ever before. And you talk about financial people, you talk about contractors, you're talking about maintenance people, insurance professionals, lawyers, reserve study specialists. They come in and out of there. Okay, now what happened in the past? They knock on your door or they knock at the gate and they come in. But now everything's done electronically. You know where you never see these people, and all you notice is electronic things occurring. You know they're in the cloud. It's all cloud-based, and what happens is, is that there's so much data going in and out. And again, as a board of directors, we used to worry about you know collecting assessments and enforcing rules and maintaining it. Now you have an infrastructure there based on vendors that. Ecosystem based on that, you have to decide on how valuable what's happening out there of all these different people. You know, you trust your vendors, but do you verify?

Sherry Branson: 25:12

Yeah, I mean, you trust your vendors, but you know they have they have their own email system, their own invoice system. You know what I mean. So they could be vulnerable to being hacked, just like the landscapers we talked about earlier. That they were hacked, their ego is hacked. You know, so you might have a great system in place, a robust cyber protection system, but you don't know about your vendors, and you are integrated.

Kevin Davis: 25:37

And the problem is, is that these vendors may have access to your system. They may have remote access to your system also, right? Like the management company may have it, but you also have other vendors that may have it also that they have access to your system and giving information back and forth to you. And again, all it takes is somebody to hack. You know, somebody. The the interesting thing that I love when I found out about hacking is when I go to the airport and they have open Wi-Fi. Well, open Wi-Fi is really open to everybody. So if I'm sitting there, you know, putting information in the system, you know, there's somebody in the airport looking at the same thing that I'm doing and is waiting for me to use my bank. So this open Wi-Fi is not a good thing.

Sherry Branson: 26:21

No, it's an invitation. But again, the hackers really

Kevin Davis: 26:24

invitation to hackers. There's so much information that goes back and forth between the vendors and the board of directors that's easy for somebody to come in there and do it. And here's the problem: when there's something that does happen, when there's a data breach, or somebody comes in and says we're going to hold your system for ransom. Who is responsible?

Sherry Branson: 26:43

That's a million dollar question, Kevin. Because it's very there's a lot of gray areas and a lot of crossover between the vendors, the property manager, and the association. Yes, all three.

Kevin Davis: 26:55

Yep. And you can blame the property manager. The property manager said, "Well, it wasn't us because guess what? You were hacked, but none of the other 30 associations were hacked that we manage. You can say the landscaper. The landscaper says, "Well, no, nope, it wasn't us. Or you can say, "Guess what? It was us, but we don't have any insurance. We don't have anything. I mean, I don't know what to tell you. So there's so many problems in there, so many different ways.

So my recommendation is this: 27:18

if you ever get stuck in a situation like that, then by law, I would say it's our responsibility as the board members of the community association. It is our responsibility. We'll take it. And then what you do is you go to the vendor and find out. Wait a minute, is it really ours, or did you do something wrong where you ought to be responsible? Now, if they say you're responsible, then they can take over. But in the meantime, just things have to be done. You know, you have to have notifications. You have to do a forensic examination, because it may take a while for that board of directors to go after the management company or go after the landscaper, whoever it is that did these things. So, again, be careful.

Sherry Branson: 28:03

Yes, make sure that the association at least is covered with insurance coverage, with with expert advice, expert cyber advice. So, if anything does occur, and there's you know there's gray areas between the vendor, the property management company, or somebody else, then at least your ducks are in a row. You know what I mean? You've got yourself covered.

Kevin Davis: 28:26

Yep, and that's why it's important when we're we're talking about this. We're talking about understanding a couple things. You understand that you have a fiduciary responsibility to understand what you are doing. So you cannot have your head in the sand anymore and say, well, there's cyber stuff out there, but guess what? We assume that's going to be okay. We assume it's going to be all right. So that's number one thing. You have a fiduciary responsibility. Have oversight of what's going on. Hopefully, everything will be okay because it was yesterday. Technology is changing rapidly, faster than you know, you want to be able to defend yourself, and only you can defend yourself by saying we're taking this seriously, and we know we have a fiduciary responsibility, and these are the things we're going to do. We have oversight of everything. That's number one. Number two is what happened if one of our technologic technology situations that we see all the time doesn't work. What do we do? Do we have a backup plan? Do we have a plan B? Do we have it in writing? What does our contract says? So we have to beware of, you know, what would happen if there was an attack on our system on purpose or by accident. What do we do?

Sherry Branson: 29:44

Yeah.

Kevin Davis: 29:45

So we should have a manual. Right. We should have a procedure. We should have something. We have a manual. We have procedures right now that tell us how to maintain the building. Right. We have a manual. It tells us how we're going to how we're going to act with the management company and the landscaper, but. Left cyber totally off of. We do not talk about cyber at all in the contracts.

Sherry Branson: 30:05

No, not at all, not at all. People just kind of until it happens, they don't think you know. They don't plan. They're just not really worried about it yet, which is which is not good because there's larger and larger claims happening, and with like you said, with everybody based so much on technology, everything, financial transactions, large financial transactions, all the reserve accounts are paid online now. Payments are paid online. You know, with everything so reliant on technology, you have to have a plan.

Kevin Davis: 30:37

And that brings up the third one: if you do have a a problem, if you have a breach of any kind, you gotta know who is responsible. Now I said up front, take responsibility for it because it makes your life a little bit easier. But have some kind of contract that says that guess what? If it happens on your watch, it's your responsibility because it's not in the contract. The match company can say, "Oh, guess what? Your job is to reimburse us for loss, indemnify us in case of a loss. So put it in the contract because without a contract, you will be held responsible for it anyway. So just make sure you know who is going to be responsible for these things.

Sherry Branson: 31:18

So you really have to get your attorney involved. I would say, Kevin. Don't you think the attorney and the cyber cyber experts?

Kevin Davis: 31:25

This is the part that the commercial part have an insurance professional come out and talk to you about cyber insurance.

Sherry Branson: 31:32

Yes, to understand what's covered, what's not covered, why you need it, that kind of a thing. Absolutely, absolutely.

Kevin Davis: 31:40

And cyber insurance will cover the lawsuits that we're talking about when you're sued because you failed to supervise, fail to keep track of the money, fail to anything. The word failure. So you need liability. You need that first party coverage for the notifications and all those expenses. You need crime insurance to protect you from social engineering coverages situations. So. you know, just talk to your insurance professional and say, "I need help on cyber. I just heard this podcast that we are there's a gap in knowledge, and I agree we have knowledge. We don't have the knowledge, but if we have the insurance, it can help us not have the knowledge. You don't have a defensible position. A lack of knowledge when you're sued is not a defensible position,

Sherry Branson: 32:25

right?

Kevin Davis: 32:26

But having insurance, listening to the podcast, and keeping notes is something you can defend yourself with. So when that claim comes in, you go to court and say, "Guess what? I know more than the person next door, than association next door. Okay, so this is what we've done, and guess what? At the end of the day, be less likely to have a large judgment and settlement made against you that may or may not be covered by insurance. So, how you like that as a closing message?

Sherry Branson: 32:52

No, it's great, Kevin. Great, you know, really fantastic information, so valuable, and it's really going to help a lot of people, a lot of board members and property managers, you know, understand kind of what's going on out there in the cyber world. You know what I mean, and why an association, just like any other business on the planet, really needs cyber protection. You know, because there's just so much going on related to cyber hacking and and ransomware and social engineering and etc. And they're handling associations are handling lots and lots of money. So I think you gave it's excellent advice, great great advice, and a great resource and tool. And I think it makes people think a lot.

Kevin Davis: 33:36

Well, this is Sherry. It's great having you on podcast again. You know, again, I keep saying we do it more often, but we do do it more often, so it's great.

Sherry Branson: 33:43

We do, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Okay,

Kevin Davis: 33:47

thanks a lot, and thanks a lot, everybody. And we'll see you next week for another truly great podcast. I'm looking forward to. I love listening these things every week. Glad I learned a lot too. So, all right, thanks a lot, Gary, and take care.

Announcer: 34:01

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