We exist to help all 2 million volunteer HOA Boardmembers nationwide have the right information at the right time to make the right decisions for the future of their community association. Stay with us weekly for actionable insights that minimize stress, avoid catastrophes, and protect property values!
Shop! HOA insights now has its very own merch store! Our team has whipped up some hats, mugs, T-Shirts, & more that we think Volunteer HOA Boardmembers are gonna love. We also offer dozens of FREE zoom backgrounds. Available in ourBoardmember Merch Store!
Don’t wait for a lawsuit to find an HOA attorney. Building that relationship early can save your board from much bigger problems later. ✅ Is a Reserve Study right for you? 👉 https://www.reservestudy.com/
In Episode 176, Robert welcomes back condominium leader and attorney Roger Minch to discuss why every association should build a relationship with an HOA attorney before a serious problem arises. Too often, boards wait until they are facing a lawsuit, a major dispute, or another costly issue before seeking legal guidance. Roger explains why having trusted legal counsel involved early can help HOA boards better understand their fiduciary responsibilities and address problems while they are still manageable.
Chapters: 00:00 Why should HOA Boards think about legal counsel before trouble starts? 04:18 What fiduciary responsibilities fall on HOA Board members? 07:24 Why are experienced HOA Attorneys difficult to find in some markets? 09:43 What should an HOA look for in a younger attorney? 12:13 How can attorney client privilege protect an HOA Board? 16:17 Why does a volunteer HOA Board need a professional team? 20:36 What happens when a board relies too heavily on its manager? 23:09 Ad Break - Association Reserves 23:40 Why is a professional HOA team worth the cost? 24:51 How should an HOA evaluate the professionals it hires? 25:44 How can a board find the right HOA Attorney? 27:51 When should an HOA call its attorney? 31:30 Why should HOA Legal Disputes be addressed while they are still small? 33:52 What can happen when an HOA waits too long to build the right team?
The views & opinions expressed in this program are those of the Hosts & Guests, intended to provide general education about the community association industry. The content is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or organization.
Why should HOA Boards think about legal counsel before trouble starts?
What fiduciary responsibilities fall on HOA Board members?
Why are experienced HOA Attorneys difficult to find in some markets?
What should an HOA look for in a younger attorney?
How can attorney client privilege protect an HOA Board?
Why does a volunteer HOA Board need a professional team?
What happens when a board relies too heavily on its manager?
Ad Break - Association Reserves
Why is a professional HOA team worth the cost?
How should an HOA evaluate the professionals it hires?
How can a board find the right HOA Attorney?
When should an HOA call its attorney?
Why should HOA Legal Disputes be addressed while they are still small?
What can happen when an HOA waits too long to build the right team?
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
Our customer wants to know when they're using this Acme thread mill if they can cut a double lead. What do you think, Jonathan? Okay, so this is a single profile SPTM. We like to call it single profile thread
Jonathan Christopher:
Acme thread mill.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
an Acme, exactly. It's a 10L. So specifically, the full tool name is an SPTM320FA-10L. That's our part number. So they're cutting 17-4 SS H900. They're using a 40 taper CNC mill. Okay. And they want to know: Is it possible to cut a double lead thread with that tool?
Jonathan Christopher:
So the answer is not a strict yes or no. If they're cutting the internal thread that this tool is primarily designed for, which would be a half 10, then the answer would be no. If they're cutting something that's a much larger diameter thread, then the answer might be yes, and that has to do primarily with what the helix angle is of the thread that they're cutting.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
And that part we don't know.
Jonathan Christopher:
Yeah, I would need to find out from the customer what the specifics of this project is in order to know. If they said, "Hey, I'm cutting a two-inch 10 double start, yeah, sure, that would work just fine. That would even lead to a different set of questions. But it is possible to thread mill it. Where if they're cutting a half 10 double start, you can't thread mill it. It doesn't really matter which tool you have. There's just limitations of thread milling that you're going to run up against that are going to make it so that that's not a solution. You could switch to different methods. You could have custom taps made that could do that. If you have a part that can go into a lathe and you can do internal thread turning. That would be ideal for that sort of situation.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
Makes sense.
Jonathan Christopher:
But yeah, it's helix angle. Yeah.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
So a lot of the the answers that I imagine you're getting or giving rather are really just questions. Yeah. So it's like a question, like a well, it depends. What about this? What about that? What about this? Yeah, and how does that one differ from a standard SPTM non-equi? A
Jonathan Christopher:
standard SPTM has a 60-degree included angle for the thread form, which is going to look something like this, where this angle here on the on the tool is going to be 60 degrees included. On an Acme, the same tool is going to look like this, with a much wider flat, and it's going to be 29 degrees included, and the difference in that in what you can and can't do in thread milling is significant. This type of form with this included angle, the shallower flanks, it makes it so that thread milling is much more prone to distortion, and that is why, especially on Acme, when you're talking about doing double starts, as the helix angle gets higher, that form is going to distort.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
Will you tell me more about what the helix angle is and how that affects the thread milling process?
Jonathan Christopher:
Yeah, we can talk about that. If you have a thread that you're cutting and you have this part right here, if this is a dash 10 double start, you're going to have your lead being from here to here, two teeth apart. That's going to be point two. because you have the pitch being 0.1, which is one divided by 10, and then you have two starts, and so it doubles up, and the lead becomes 0.2. When you have this 0.200 lead, as that comes around to the other side over 180 degrees, it's going to drop down 100 thousandths from here to here. If you're looking straight at it, you'll see that looks like an angle. In reality, it's curving around as it's doing that angle, but it is an angle. So if you look at that angle and you take a straight line from here to here, that's creating the helix angle, and if you make the diameter smaller, for example, if I had the part that was half the size right here, and now I'm going down 100 thousandths from this side to this side, that angle might be steeper going down from here to here like this. And so the steepness of that angle is going to affect on how much distortion you're going to get as it cuts below a certain threshold. You really don't have any noticeable distortion at a certain point. You start to see distortion. Some of it can be accounted for. Some of it, as it gets too high, you can't account for that. I know from experience if you have a half 10 acme and you're trying to do a double start with it, it's not going to work.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
Yeah, and you don't want to get to the end and find out you're on the no side of the go no go.
Jonathan Christopher:
Well, and that's the problem is is that what you'll see in those type of situations is typically your gages will flip as you start to machine in, your no go will go first, and your go won't go. That's because you're dealing with distortion phenomenon, thread milling. That's not going to make anyone happy. I'd rather give them the bad news on the front end and ship someone a tool, have them get in, machine apart, and then find out they're making scrap. Yeah,
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
we don't want scrap.
Jonathan Christopher:
No, no scrap.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
And there have been times when you've definitely had to say, like, I can make it, but I'm not gonna, because it ain't gonna work for you.
Jonathan Christopher:
Right. I've also had situations where I can make it, but it's not the off-the-shelf solution you were asking for. It might be we need to turn this over to the custom shop. We need to design something unique for your situation. So
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
there's a lot to thread milling.
Jonathan Christopher:
There is, yeah. There's a lot it can do, and there's a few things that it can. The high helix situation being one of them. So
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
have you ever had a situation where an engineer has designed something and the machinist is trying to make it, and a tap won't cut it. A standard thread mill won't cut it, and a custom thread mill won't cut it, and it just cannot be
Jonathan Christopher:
done. I'm sure it's happened. I don't remember those situations directly, but I've seen some wild stuff that you don't want to machine. But
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
most of the time, you can figure out how to skin the cap.
Jonathan Christopher:
There's usually a solution, but it may not be the way that someone wants to do it. I mean, if you're doing a coarse, deep thread that's multi-start and you have to do it with a tap instead of a thread mill, that's not an ideal scenario. Usually, we've come offered solutions where we say, "Hey, we can't go as deep as you want, but we can get you three quarter of the way there. They bring that back to their own engineering team and say, "Hey, we can do this. Sometimes reality pushes the design because of the constraints of what you can and can't make.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
But I like to think we we can make a lot, and we think you have made some funky stuff. Some things that you you can share with us, and maybe you can continue to share over the next few episodes. Sure. Some things you probably can't.
Jonathan Christopher:
Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I mean the details anyway. Sure.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
Yeah, you've been treadmilling a while, and so yeah, there's a a wealth of knowledge here that I look forward to hearing and learning more about over the coming weeks.
Jonathan Christopher:
Sounds great.
Sarah Christopher Faulk:
Yeah. So if you're into porting and thread milling, make sure you visit us in Chicago at INTS. We'll be there the whole week at booth number 432414 in the West Hall.
%20v2jpg.jpg)
